Am I setting up Volumes the right way?

[~GW~]

Hi all - nooby alert :)

Our need for a NAS is;

• Simple backup of networked computers
• Share files between computers
• Store non critical Software such as Apps, Fonts, Music etc

I did the below after following a basic how to set-up FreeNas form another site.

So the NAS is simply being used as a JBOD, no specific RAID needs required here - as far as i can tell for my needs

WRONG > At this stage it is only 4 x 1TB drives, I have 3 x 4TB drives and 1 x 5TB drive to be added once I know all else is set-up correctly.

EDIT Drives listed were wrong, should be;

Server
4 x 1TB
2 x 2TB
2 x 4TB

The iMac has
Built in;
1 x 512GB SSD
Attached Thunderbolt 3 enclosure;
1 x 1TB SSD
1 x 2TB
1 x 4TB
1 x 5TB

When I created the volumes the storage space show different values. I did look this up but did not make much sense to me of the explanations given (there may be others that describe it better that I have not yet found

I have setup shares using SMB (needed for both Windows and Apple computers) to both the main NAS drives but also specific folder in the NAS Drives

On the relevant PCs I link to the specific folder shares rather than the full NAS folder (maybe that is not needed?)

Am I doing this wrong?

 

[garm]

Yes you did, you do not set up a NAS this way.

First you need to understand pools, you don’t create single drive pools for a NAS. The point of ZFS is to pool multiple drives. That way you get better utilization of them and data protection. What you did is inefficient and dangerous to data stored on your NAS. ZFS will still be able to tell you if data has been lost, but won’t be able to recover it for you.

Second, you make your life emensly complicated by setting up shares this way. Have a look at this video by @m0nkey_ instead of what ever guide you followed.

If there is any value in the data being stored on this thing, do not put it into production in its present configuration.

 

[~GW~]

Hence my request for help.

Note as above this is purely a backup and shared storage, it is not a sole only copy backup. Files that are on existing PC's are backed up to the NAS, a 1 to 1 Sync from PC to NAS. So data protection as normal is not required, again backup only. If a PC drive fails, we simply obtain a new drive and restore files form the backup, or visa versa, if a NAS drive fails we recreate the backup from the PC.

How do you mean complicated with the share method?

Going production is fine as a non critical synced PC > NAS storage

 

[~GW~]

OK, I've had another person say to me to try OMV as that is better for what I am describing ... will trial that

 

[garm]

Why risk the integrity of the backup? If a laptop needs to be restored and you have checksum errors on the backup you don’t have a backup any more. The checksum error would be easily corrected by ZFS if you set it up appropriately.

If you do not intend to use ZFS as intended you are proabobly correct in choosing a different solution.

 

[~GW~]

Thanks, your point well taken. Ok i'm going to try and find a FreeNAS full start to finish set-up video guide for dummies that does what you suggested :)

 

[garm]

Unless you have specific performance needs just (1) read the manual (2) set up a single raidz2 vdev pool (3) set up recursive snapshots with 90 days retention and (4) follow @m0nkey_ ’s video on smb shares and users. You’ll be done in an afternoon.

But before all that, spend a week burning in your gear.

 

[~GW~]

pend a week burning in your gear.

Is that required with used drives from my previous Windows Home Server. Is this a FreeNas tool or another I should use?

One of those drives I have already made a door stop, has bad sectors

 

[~GW~]

So ok, I still have a fair bit of reading to do, especially when you sacrifice a fair amount of storage space for data protection.

You said a single 'single raidz2 vdev pool', is that what you would recommend for a setup of these drives, or something different?

3 x 1TB
2 x 2TB
2 x 4TB

Now the 4TB Drives are near full (I plan to buy another one when I can afford to).

I'm wanting to maximise the amount of storage space as possible.

 

[pro lamer]

You said a single 'single raidz2 vdev pool', is that what you would recommend for a setup of these drives, or something different?

3 x 1TB
2 x 2TB
2 x 4TB

The above may work as a stripe of 3 vdevs in one pool: 2 mirrors+ one RAIDz1.

But what happened to the fourth 1TB drive? 4 HDDs may work as a raidz2...

And you can't convert a raidz1 vdev to raidz2 unless you destroy the whole pool.

Now the 4TB Drives are near full

If they are not zfs formatted they would be erased if you convert them to zfs.

You may build a 2 vdev pool (2x2TB mirror + 3x1Tb raidz1) move the data from the 4TBs (if they are mirrored then you will have enough space. If not mirrored then try sth else cos 80% * 2 * 4TB is too much)

And has your disk list changed? You didn't mention 2TB disks. What is your disk list? It's hard to give advices otherwise and you may be not happy with what you get or build instead...

 

[~GW~]

I do apologise, the HDDs I mentioned in the OP are what the main PC has in it but was wrong as well, my mistake ... it has been a long day and lots of playing around and easily confused. I have edited the OP

So let me clear that up.

Our main 'critical' Windows PC has been replaced by a new iMac. The storage that has is a 512GB SSD installed, and a thunderbolt 3 enclosure with 1 x 1TB SSD, 1 x 2TB HDD, 1 x 4TB HDD and 1 x 5TB HDD attached thunderbolt 3 enclosure. There is 3 other Windows PC's in use ranging from 1TB to 2TB of HDD on them. Only 1 of which is deemed 'important' that needs essential backup which has a 512GB SSD and a 1TB HDD.

The existing server (previously a Windows Home Server 2011) has the drives I listed above, which are;

4 x 1TB HDD - however one of the 1TB drives I have tested today has bad sectors so I've removed that. Then 2 x 2TB drives and finally 2 x 4TB drives.

I guess that is why I went with a JBOD setup with the WHS11 as it was the quickest way to make the most available space. I was then able to set up a file sync between PC to Server using a program called SyncBackSE. Where every file (in selected back up directories) was mirrored onto the server. This allowed me to recover single files or if needed the whole HDD data back to the PC if a HDD failed. This has only happened 1 in the past 10+ years.

The theory here, albeit wrong based on what you have suggested and what I have read now to ensure no loss of data, was that the stored files on the NAS were only just that, mirrors. With the exception of some non-essential folders for sharing etc.

So to clarify, the drives in use are;

iMac > On Server
512GB + 1TB > 1TB
2TB > 2TB
4TB > 4TB
5TB > 4TB + 1TB

Windows PC > On Server
512GB + 1TB > 2TB

Other Windows PC's will need a new 1TB or 2TB HDD

To do what I 'should' do I am requiring additional drives, and quite a few.

Which then brings me back to what can I do to achieve what I want with what I have. The answer appears that I can't unless I set it up as a JBOD using FreeNAS or OMV.

 

[garm]

You cannot do “JBOD” the way you intend without risking all the data. As ZFS stripes data on all available disks in a pool a single disk failure will bring down the whole pool. That is why you need redundant vdevs.

But before you start planning a pool layout you need to figure out where you are in the backup flow. Stick to the 1-2-3 rule and build each node appropriately for the risks you are willing to take.

 

[pro lamer]

JBOD” the way you intend without risking all the data. As ZFS stripes data on all available disks in a pool a single disk failure will bring down the whole pool

Just for sanity: the OP setup NAS1-4 looks like separate pools, not striped, so a single disk failure would cause a single pool loose.

Anyway the 3 1TB disks may go into raidz1 but a future bought 4TB drive cannot be easily added to the pool without losing redundancy.

@~GW~ I'd consider creating that raidz1 (but check expected pool size as it may be a bit less than 2TB, raidz has overhead, there are some calculators for this) and using it instead one of the single 2TB disks, thus providing more redundancy and freeing a 2TB drive for future combining with other disks (and reconsider buying a single 4TB drive - maybe 2x2TB so you can combine them into raidz1 with the freed one... Warn: some consider 2TB drives too big for raidz1)

 

[~GW~]

You cannot do “JBOD” the way you intend without risking all the data

Totally understand that which is why I am still reading up on how to do this with the disks i have.

the OP setup NAS1-4 looks like separate pools, not striped, so a single disk failure would cause a single pool loose

That is correct :)

I'd consider creating that raidz1

Will take a look at that.

and reconsider buying a single 4TB drive - maybe 2x2TB so you can combine them into raidz1 with the freed one

My issue here is HDD space in the box I am using. If money was less of a concern I'd probably replace all of my drives less than 4TB and replace the others with 4TB WD NAS drives. I had 7 physical drives in the box, however one has been removed after a HDD test. I could fit another 3 HDD if I really needed to. Ideally I'd go existing drives 2 x 4TB and 2 x 2TB, then add new 2 x 4TB drives. That gives me a total of 20TB storage space (less overheads).

Warn: some consider 2TB drives too big for raidz1)

Why? So do I not do that then?

 

[pro lamer]

Why?

There is a general rule of thumb that having big drives in raidz means much time to resilver and risk of a second drive fail is high comparing to "small" drives. Second drive fail before the raidz1 resilver finishes means pool lost.

Some consider 1TB a limit and some other 2TB.

So do I not do that then?

Wild noob's guess: maybe with 3 drives only the resilver would be fast enough?

I'd check if someone more experienced wrote already on this... :(

 

[pro lamer]

There is a general rule of thumb that having big drives in raidz means much time to resilver and risk of a second drive fail is high comparing to "small" drives. Second drive fail before the raidz1 resilver finishes means pool lost.

PS: you may try googling for "raid5 is dead"