A "few" questions from a newbie

[Wazkyr]

Hey, I'm new to the forum and building a NAS/Freenas in general, spent the last week just lurking and gathering information.
Sorry for the wall of text... im bad at constraining myself.
I'm building my first NAS(had an old Synology before) and had a few questions regarding RaidZ and SAS/Sata compatibility and general feedback on my build.

This is starting as a Plex server (4K HDR rips) but i might be doing some VMware with time.
I know the CPU is overkill for this(Max 2 Plex users, an LG tv(C7) that doesn't need transcode) but i like being safe, and the Xeon prices are not too bad.


The hardware i plan to use:
MB: Supermicro X10SL7-F (already bought)
CPU: Xeon E3 1270 V3 (already bought)
CPU fan: Gelid Siberian Pro (eBay) (wanted something quiet and cheap)
RAM: Hynix 8GB 1866MHz ram (eBay) (upgrading to 16GB when i get the money)
CASE: Fractal Node 804 (eBay)
PSU: Not sure yet, i have good experience with EVGA, maybe something like the Supernova 550 GS?
Samsung 850 PRO 256 GB (system HDD, already own)
HDD: Not sure... look below

Moneys a bit tight atm so I'm buying the stuff over the next weeks/months, hopefully 2. hand to save some €.

Concerning the ram, i know its not one of the recommended types for the motherboard, but it looks like its just faster (and cheaper in EU) version of the recommended one.
So why not get the faster one in case i upgrade my MB+CPU one day?

Concerning the harddisk's i was planning on using 3x 4TB WD reds in RAIDZ1, but only buying 1 first(monies bit tight). Maybe adding more hdds later.
Can i just start without running any RaidZ, and use "JBOD" with only 1 hdd and then change it to RAIDZ1 when i get another 2 hdds without losing all the data?

And last but no least, i found a cheap SAS2 hdd "HGST Ultrastar 7K4000 ALS HUS724040ALS64" 4TB for about 60$, never used. Can i mix the SAS2 with the Sata hdds. So i buy this first and then buy 2x WD red Sata disk for RAIDZ1 later?

Thank you for reading this far :)

Have a good day.

Waz

 

[danb35]

Can i just start without running any RaidZ, and use "JBOD" with only 1 hdd and then change it to RAIDZ1 when i get another 2 hdds without losing all the data?

No.

Can i mix the SAS2 with the Sata hdds.

Yes, if you have a SAS controller (which you do in the X10SL7).

(upgrading to 16GB when i get the money)

If you're going to run Plex, this needs to be a priority--don't expect things to run well with Plex and only 8 GB of RAM.

 

[Wazkyr]

Thanks, guess ill prioritise getting 16GB ram.

My understanding of RaidZ is properly not good enough. Is there no way to start with just 1 HDD and then expand with more later without losing data? I don't need to store critical data, so i prefer as much useable space as possible.

If not, can i start a RaidZ1 with 1 SAS2 HDD and 1x Sata HDD and then expand it later, or does it need to be a mirror vdev to expand it later?

 

[danb35]

Is there no way to start with just 1 HDD and then expand with more later without losing data?

If you don't care about redundancy, it's easy--create a pool with one disk, and extend the pool with additional disks as needed/tolerated. The disks will all be striped in that case. The problem is that when a disk fails, all your data goes away.

If you do care about redundancy, though, it isn't so easy. The easiest thing to do in that case is start with a pair of disks mirrored, and add pairs of disks as you need to grow. You'll lose half of your space to redundancy, but you only need two disks at a time to grow a fully redundant pool, and you can do everything from the GUI. If you have to start with a single disk, you can later add a second disk as a mirror of the first, but that has to be done at the command line--the FreeNAS devs haven't yet bothered to add this capability to the GUI.

If you want to get deep into "here be dragons" territory, you can create a degraded RAIDZ1 pool with only two disks. If you need instructions, you probably shouldn't do it, but I have a write-up here.

You should also keep in mind that RAIDZn vdevs can't have devices added or removed after they're created--so you can't, for example, turn a three-disk RAIDZ1 into a four-disk RAIDZ1. This capability is coming, but I'd expect it to be at least a year away.

You really need to do some reading on ZFS basics. Start here.

 

[JohnK]

Concerning the ram, i know its not one of the recommended types for the motherboard, but it looks like its just faster (and cheaper in EU) version of the recommended one.
So why not get the faster one in case i upgrade my MB+CPU one day?

I use that motherboard in one of my test servers. Trust me, unless you know of someone who is using the ram successfully in this board, don't do it. These boards will not post if it does not like the ram. You need ECC Unbuffered ram. I often run 4x4gb modules that you can get cheaply 2nd hand.

 

[Wazkyr]

If you don't care about redundancy, it's easy--create a pool with one disk, and extend the pool with additional disks as needed/tolerated. The disks will all be striped in that case. The problem is that when a disk fails, all your data goes away.

If you do care about redundancy, though, it isn't so easy. The easiest thing to do in that case is start with a pair of disks mirrored, and add pairs of disks as you need to grow. You'll lose half of your space to redundancy, but you only need two disks at a time to grow a fully redundant pool, and you can do everything from the GUI. If you have to start with a single disk, you can later add a second disk as a mirror of the first, but that has to be done at the command line--the FreeNAS devs haven't yet bothered to add this capability to the GUI.
.

Seeing as i will be adding more hdds along the way, i guess ill have to go mirror vdev. I dont want striping, thats too scary even for my data needs.

Did i understand it right, that i can make a mirror vdev with 1 Sata hdd + 1 SAS hdd?
Thank again.

I use that motherboard in one of my test servers. Trust me, unless you know of someone who is using the ram successfully in this board, don't do it. These boards will not post if it does not like the ram. You need ECC Unbuffered ram. I often run 4x4gb modules that you can get cheaply 2nd hand.

The ram i linked was ECC unbuffed, but guess ill stick with the recommended, even thou i see people use other types(like yourself :) )
The 4GB models seems all gone from the EU 2. hand market unfortunately.

 

[danb35]

Did i understand it right, that i can make a mirror vdev with 1 Sata hdd + 1 SAS hdd?

Of course.

 

[JohnK]

The ram i linked was ECC unbuffed, but guess ill stick with the recommended, even thou i see people use other types(like yourself :) )
The 4GB models seems all gone from the EU 2. hand market unfortunately.

There is a whole sticky as to what RAM you can use in the Supermicro X10.
https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?resources/ram-recommendations-for-supermicro-x10-lga1150-motherboards.6/
Now the ram you were listing might work just fine, but I'm worried that is is not specifically listed. I just know the X10 board is extremely sensitive and it will hang at bootup if it doesn't like the RAM.

Yes, I have used Kingston RAM in all my servers with no problem. A lot have been written about why you shouldn't and I believe my 32gb DDR3 was an older batch that didn't cause problems.

 

[HoneyBadger]

Yes, I have used Kingston RAM in all my servers with no problem. A lot have been written about why you shouldn't and I believe my 32gb DDR3 was an older batch that didn't cause problems.

Kingston is a rebrander - they don't make their own chips, so you're "playing the silicon lottery" with any product you buy from them, be it RAM or NAND.

They used to be good, but personally I feel like there was a major (negative) shift in quality in late 2012/early 2013. Maybe it's turned around again?

 

[JohnK]

[QUOTE="HoneyBadger, post: 488529, member: 36971]
They used to be good, but personally I feel like there was a major (negative) shift in quality in late 2012/early 2013. Maybe it's turned around again?[/QUOTE]
For a while there people were having problems with 4 sticks. It was early 2013 if I recall correctly. I never had any problems. Bought some Kingsto.Ddr 4 in 2016 and absolutely no problem. It is cheap and gets the job done.

 

[Wazkyr]

I ended up finding some cheap 3TB SAS drives 2. hand, but im a bit confused about the cables even after reading the sassy guide.

Would 1x "Mini SAS cable SFF-8087 to 4 x SAS (29pin) SFF8482 + Power - 0,75m" be enough bandwidth for 4 x SAS hdds, or do i need 2?

Also is 2 drives per molex connector fine?

 

[JohnK]

I ended up finding some cheap 3TB SAS drives 2. hand, but im a bit confused about the cables even after reading the sassy guide.

Would 1x "Mini SAS cable SFF-8087 to 4 x SAS (29pin) SFF8482 + Power - 0,75m" be enough bandwidth for 4 x SAS hdds, or do i need 2?

Also is 2 drives per molex connector fine?

Just to make sure you understand. Those blue SAS ports takes normal SATA drives once you flush the controller to IT mode. If you for some reason decide to go with more expensive SAS drives, you need an adapter for every drive. Unless you get a back pane. Two molex fine for four drives.
https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-18-Inch-Cable-Power-SAS729PW18/dp/B000V72AQ4. (The link provides clear pictures, you should get it much cheaper)

 

[Wazkyr]

I understand the SAS ports can do Sata, but i will only be using one Sata drive (SSD), and there is already 6 sata ports on the X10SL7-F that it can connect to.

I got that SAS drives for about 30$ each, felt cheap. By adapter, do you just mean the cable you linked? Seems like its the same as the one i linked, just without the splitter.


Edit: I think i get it now, all the ports on the board uses the same sata connectors(but the blue also support SAS), i thought the SAS connecter just looked almost the same.

So a cable like this x4 ? https://www.av-cables.dk/diverse-sa...-sff8482-power-til-1x-sata-single-target.html

 

[JohnK]

Seems like its the same as the one i linked, just without the splitter.

I believe the adapter you linked is different. It says Mini SAS SFF8087 to 29 pin. You would use that cable if you had a mini SAS port, like for example on a M1015/LSI card. Some new boards also have those connectors.
What you are looking for is a SATA to 29pin SAS connector. They come in many shapes and forms, with some being SATA power plus SATA cable to 29pin SAS.

 

[Wazkyr]

I believe the adapter you linked is different. It says Mini SAS SFF8087 to 29 pin. You would use that cable if you had a mini SAS port, like for example on a M1015/LSI card. Some new boards also have those connectors.
What you are looking for is a SATA to 29pin SAS connector. They come in many shapes and forms, with some being SATA power plus SATA cable to 29pin SAS.

Much appreciated for clearing it up. :)

 

[JohnK]

So a cable like this x4 ? https://www.av-cables.dk/diverse-sa...-sff8482-power-til-1x-sata-single-target.html

That’s it.