3ware 9650SE-24 replacement

[BernhardMM]

Hello there,

Since we just have found out that our 9650SE-24 does not take the new shiny 10TB disks, we are looking into upgrading the HBA. I have seen either the M1015 (based on the LSI 2008 chip) and the 9207-8i (based on the LSI 2308) being recommended, but I wonder...

The 9650SE has 3 internal M8 ports, each going to 8 drives in our enclosure. To 1:1 replace that...do I need:

2xM1015 (each controller supporting 16 leaving 1 port unused), or do I need 3 controllers, because the 2 internal ports don't take the M8 cables?
3x9207-8i (each controller supporting 8, so need 3 anyway) and new cables.

The other option would be to just take 8TB drives instead of the 10TB, has anyone tried the HGST HE8 drives with the 9650? BTW: Does anyone know why the 10TB drives just throw an error with the 9650? I wasn't aware of 10TB being a barrier in terms of addressing...

Cheers,

Bernhard

 

[MatthewSteinhoff]

The 9650SE has 3 internal M8 ports, each going to 8 drives in our enclosure.

You have the 'Multi-lane M8 Y cable' coming off the 9650SE-24M8 as seen page nine of the install manual? That cable splits the M8 into two SFF-8087s? That results in a total of six 8087s going into your backplane?

2xM1015 or 3x9207-8i

The M1015 and 9207 both have two SFF-8087 ports. If you need six inputs to your backplane, you'll need three of either of those cards. They are essentially the same. (Assuming your backplane can't be reconfigured.)

If you want to stick with a single card and upgrade to 12Gb/s in the process, consider the LSI SAS 9305-24i. Pricy - one 9305 is a little more expensive than three 1015/9207s - but it will bring you out of the 3Gb/s stone ages, bypassing 6Gb/s. You'll need new SFF-8643 to SFF-8087 cables but it sounds like you're going to need new cables anyway. I can't remember the last time I saw an M8 connector.

I'm not sure why your 9650SE-24 would support 8TB drives but not 10TB drives. Are you sure they problem is controller-related? What size drives did you previously use? In my experience, controllers either allow drives over 2TB or they don't. Once you crack that barrier, I've never had a problem. Then again, I've never had 10TB drives. Any chance your new drives are more power hungry than your previous drives and what you're seeing is that sort of instability?

Cheers,
Matt

 

[Ericloewe]

What's an M8 port? SAS2 controllers use SFF-8087 and SAS3 controllers use SFF-8643, which are compatible with passive cables.

 

[BernhardMM]

You have the 'Multi-lane M8 Y cable' coming off the 9650SE-24M8 as seen page nine of the install manual? That cable splits the M8 into two SFF-8087s? That results in a total of six 8087s going into your backplane?

Exactly!

The M1015 and 9207 both have two SFF-8087 ports. If you need six inputs to your backplane, you'll need three of either of those cards. They are essentially the same. (Assuming your backplane can't be reconfigured.)

Ah ok, I thought there might be a 8087 Y cable for the M1015 since it can support 16 vs. the 8 of the 9207. Well, too bad.

If you want to stick with a single card and upgrade to 12Gb/s in the process, consider the LSI SAS 9305-24i. Pricy - one 9305 is a little more expensive than three 1015/9207s - but it will bring you out of the 3Gb/s stone ages, bypassing 6Gb/s. You'll need new SFF-8643 to SFF-8087 cables but it sounds like you're going to need new cables anyway. I can't remember the last time I saw an M8 connector.

Lightning speed is actually not so much required, safe storage, many TB and cost are more important. Sounds like 650€+ or so, which sucks. Actually, the Dell H200 (crossflashed it should be "the same" as the M1015, right?) seems to be going quite cheap on ebay, these days!

I'm not sure why your 9650SE-24 would support 8TB drives but not 10TB drives. Are you sure they problem is controller-related? What size drives did you previously use? In my experience, controllers either allow drives over 2TB or they don't. Once you crack that barrier, I've never had a problem. Then again, I've never had 10TB drives. Any chance your new drives are more power hungry than your previous drives and what you're seeing is that sort of instability?

That's what I find strange, too. I have read that 8TB drives (Ironwolf, WD Red) work just fine with the 9650, so I assumed that the 10TB HGST He10 would hopefully work, too. Now, of course, after I bought 1 drive (to test), I read that there are already some reports that the 10TB variants of the Ironwolf don't work with that controller. Ironically, the 10TB variants draw less power than the 8TB versions (also a reason for me to go that route).

Thank you for your suggestions!

Cheers,

Bernhard

 

[MatthewSteinhoff]

What's an M8 port?

An abomination of nature. Pretty much only used by 3ware. It allows fewer physical ports on the controller but requires an obnoxious Y connector to get to the industry-standard SFF-8087.

I'm pretty sure every single M8 cable ever installed required overnight shipping.

Because you never expect that your HBA is going to require a one-off cable. So you drive two hours to your data center in the wee hours of the night to add drives, find out whoever installed the server didn't cable the extra bays, you look through your giant box of miscellaneous SAS/SATA cables - because you always come prepared - only to find that you've never seen an M8 cable, let alone have one, rig the drives sitting on top the server using the motherboard ports and extra long cables because you MUST have them online for the project, drive home pissed off, order a ridiculously overpriced M8 Y cable and pay stupid overnight shipping because ain't no one has the cable locally, receive the cable, drive back to the data center in the middle of the night, install the cable and curse the entire time.

Or, at least that's what I've heard about the M8 cable, @Ericloewe.

Cheers,
Matt

 

[Ericloewe]

@BernhardMM, you sound like you could use an SAS expander. LSI SAS 9300 plus a 24-port (or 36-port) SAS3 expander, or LSI SAS 9211/9207 plus an SAS2 expander.

Yes, you could mix and match, but those configurations are always less tested.

 

[BernhardMM]

@BernhardMM, you sound like you could use an SAS expander. LSI SAS 9300 plus a 24-port (or 36-port) SAS3 expander, or LSI SAS 9211/9207 plus an SAS2 expander.

Yes, you could mix and match, but those configurations are always less tested.

Thank you - I didn't know I could just pop in an expander without replacing the backplane! If I got my research right, I need a 28 or 36 port expander, to fully support the 24 drive bays, correct? So Intel RES2CV360 and Dell M310 - or 3x Dell M310.

Cheers,

Bernhard

 

[Ericloewe]

Sure, but avoid Dell cards whenever possible, since they're often a pain in the ass to crossflash. Since there are no 28-port expanders, you'll need either a 36-port one or connect eight of the drives directly to the controller.

 

[BernhardMM]

Sure, but avoid Dell cards whenever possible, since they're often a pain in the ass to crossflash. Since there are no 28-port expanders, you'll need either a 36-port one or connect eight of the drives directly to the controller.

Thanks! I'll see what I can get, but is there any downside to connect 4 drives to the controller and 20 to the expander? The 36port expander is prohibitive in pricing, so I would go for 3xcontroller, since I have no shortage of PCI slots.

Cheers,

Bernhard

 

[Ericloewe]

I'll see what I can get, but is there any downside to connect 4 drives to the controller and 20 to the expander?

It might tickle your OCD.