Are my HDDS damaged? :O

[Dariusz1989]

Hey

I had workstation with 2x6tb hdds. I moved them to new nas pc and now they are flashing as <attached>

Does it mean that they are damaged and I was using damaged hdd for over 1 year? Or I need to format them or something? I bought 2 more hdds so I run 2x2 in mirror(Raid 10 I hope), Having 2old one together and 2 new ones together. What is the command to check how I paired them btw?

Regards
Dariusz

 

[danb35]

One of your disks has bad sectors. This gets discussed here a lot, and even a brief review of the forum should have given you some pointers on where to start looking. See, e.g.:
https://forums.freenas.org/index.ph...unreadable-pending-sectors.57452/#post-404380
https://forums.freenas.org/index.ph...bleshooting-guide-all-versions-of-freenas.17/

It seems the question comes up every couple of days, and nobody has any awareness that the question's ever been asked before, or thought to search for it.

 

[Chris Moore]

Does it mean that they are damaged and I was using damaged hdd for over 1 year?

Usually bad sectors accumulate over time. If you were using these disks in a Windows system, that is why you were not notified. Windows doesn't check for bad sectors and for that reason can't notify you of bad sectors.

You just need to replaced the disk with bad sectors and if it is under warranty, you probably want to send it in for that.

Also, you would have the same usable space with four drives in a RAID-Z2 and it would tolerate the failure of any disk without loss of redundancy where a pair of mirrors loses redundancy with a single disk failure. Did you have a great reason for doing something that leaves all your data at risk?

 

[Dariusz1989]

Hey

It seems the question comes up every couple of days, and nobody has any awareness that the question's ever been asked before, or thought to search for it.

I think if there was a little "?" next to the info stating that its a failed hdd and it needs replacing then that would've saved some post from forum maybe. Granted I would probably still ask as I did not know that windows don't do these checks. But still would be good info.

Thanks for info ! I send the HDD for RMA to wd. Hopefully will get a new one next week.

Also, you would have the same usable space with four drives in a RAID-Z2 and it would tolerate the failure of any disk without loss of redundancy where a pair of mirrors loses redundancy with a single disk failure. Did you have a great reason for doing something that leaves all your data at risk?

You mean raid 6? I only have 4 hdds. So if I go raid 5, 3+1 or raid 10 2+2 I felt that its safer to just go raid 10 as I wont get parity performance hit. I read that with 10-12tb hdds the raid 6 is becoming not so good option slowly. As from my vague memory "hdd has some 12 bilion/trilion something of error savety for sectors or somehting and hdds at 10tb are reaching these numbers meaning that any1 hdd can have a fail sector. Meaning if u have 10/12tb hdds in raid 6 and 1 hdd fail, then chances are that any of the other 10/12tb hdds can develop a bad sector and full data can be lost - I mean 1 bad hdd, 1 bad sector + 1 extra bad sector to lost all" - it's super vague memory that I read 2 weeks ago about raid5/6 redundancy. ok I think I found it > http://www.zdnet.com/article/why-raid-6-stops-working-in-2019/

Not sure. I do have a plan to update the nas with more drivers in future. The idea is to get 2 more hdds that are 10/12tb big. Which brings second question. Can I expand volume? Can I add 2 more hdds and update my raid from 2x2 to 3x3, without losing data ? Or I need some spare hdd to which I copy all my data for backup and re-create raid?

Now that I think of it alternatively I could do raid 5 in raid 10...
so
3+1
mirror
3+1

This way I have double redundancy I can have 1 hdd fail from either of the raid config + either of raid configs can fail fully and I sitll will have my data save. That however means that I need to buy 4 more hdds to get it to work now... ahh so complicated... and pricey :c
Then again this looks like raid6... can I have raid 6 with as 5+3? 3 redundant drivers? I don't feel save with 2. I don't fell save at all the more I look in to this lol.


Edit1. Damn now that I think about it I should just get 1 more hdd and run raid6. Can I convert my raid from 10 to 6 without loosing data ? Or I need to destroy & Recreate?

Regards
Dariusz

 

[danb35]

You mean raid 6

No, he meant RAIDZ2. FreeNAS uses ZFS, which doesn't do RAID0/1/5/6.

 

[Dariusz1989]

No, he meant RAIDZ2. FreeNAS uses ZFS, which doesn't do RAID0/1/5/6.

IS that not the same as raid 6?

If I do raidz2, with 3+2 hdd,s can I later add hdds to make it raid 6+2/8+2? Or do I need to destroy volume and recopy everything?

 

[Jailer]

IS that not the same as raid 6?

If I do raidz2, with 3+2 hdd,s can I later add hdds to make it raid 6+2/8+2? Or do I need to destroy volume and recopy everything?

You have to destroy and recreate the volume. You really should check out the resources section at the top of the page and do some research. Most of the questions you are asking can be answered there.

 

[joeschmuck]

IS that not the same as raid 6?

If I do raidz2, with 3+2 hdd,s can I later add hdds to make it raid 6+2/8+2? Or do I need to destroy volume and recopy everything?

Technically no, not the same.

Yes, you need to destroy the pool and recreate it with the new hard drive configuration. We all think it sucks but it is the nature of this beast and since 95% of us realize this before committing to this format, it's acceptable. But you can add an entire vdev to expand the pool.

 

[Dariusz1989]

I'm going over the docs over and over, but never sure as I tend to understand stuff differently... < bad brain.

Regarding expanding hdds thats quite sad I must say. If I have 20tb worth of data and I wish to add another hdds to the pool then I need to copy all my data to spare 20tb system which can cost either 2 hdds, £1k or £2k for raid ones more or less. Is Freenas developer working on a way to expand driver? If we can replace failed driver/resilver it is there no way to use the same technique to resilver to +1 driver or smth like that? Does qnap/synology allow for hdd expansion ?

 

[Jailer]

If we can replace failed driver/resilver it is there no way to use the same technique to resilver to +1 driver or smth like that?

Read this thread for more information. Again you are asking questions that could easily be answered by searching the forum or doing a little research.

For even more information read the ZFS primer.

 

[Dariusz1989]

Thanks!

Ok so update, I'll go with raid6, 3+2 mode. I'm only now debating when ever my 5th drive should be a WD RED PRO or a HGST 6TB Ultrastar 7k6000 Enterprise one.
From my understand that should absolutely fine and mixing drivers of the same capacity/speed even a good idea as then the time of hdd fail can vary even further making it more fail proof?

Would you guys agree or I should go with WD RED Pro so all hdds are the same brand here as I already have 4 of them here?

On a side note I keep googling waht happens to data access when raid6 fails, if I lose 1 or 2 drivers I need to resilver/rebuild volumes, but can I still access data or I'm locked out? Also what does dictate the speed of rebuild, cpu , ram, hdd speed?

Thanks for help, will read the 2 posts linked above. I think I even was going over 1 of them already. - was actualy going over the PDF I dont know where to find vdev yet... I only see zvol.

Btw is there IRC?

Regards
Dariusz

 

[Chris Moore]

Thanks!
Ok so update, I'll go with raid6,

Can you PLEASE stop thinking about RAID-6. ZFS does not work the same as old hardware RAID that is what all documentation referencing RAID-6 is talking about. ZFS was designed to be a replacement for all forms of hardware RAID. That is why they came up with their own DIFFERENT terminology. RAID-Z2 is the ZFS form of disk redundancy that has a little more than two drives of parity data to protect the system from a drive failure. There are so many things that are functionally different between how ZFS works and how other RAID implementations work that you really need to go back and relearn it all. What you think you know about RAID will only get you in trouble with ZFS. ZFS is so much better that it is worth learning about.

 

[Dariusz1989]

Can you PLEASE stop thinking about RAID-6. ZFS does not work the same as old hardware RAID that is what all documentation referencing RAID-6 is talking about. ZFS was designed to be a replacement for all forms of hardware RAID. That is why they came up with their own DIFFERENT terminology. RAID-Z2 is the ZFS form of disk redundancy that has a little more than two drives of parity data to protect the system from a drive failure. There are so many things that are functionally different between how ZFS works and how other RAID implementations work that you really need to go back and relearn it all. What you think you know about RAID will only get you in trouble with ZFS. ZFS is so much better that it is worth learning about.

Hey

Sorry for the raid6. In my basic mind, raid6 and raid-z2 are the same things as I got 2 parity drivers. But yes ZFS sure do have a lot more to it than the old raid. I'm slowly going over it. But still what does happen to my access to data in case of 1 drive failure in raid-z2? Can I still work while I resilver the disks or am I locked out of my storage? for x hours depending on x variables?

 

[Jailer]

Can I still work while I resilver the disks

Yes.

 

[Dariusz1989]

Yes.

Uuu that brilliant, thanks! I was worried I be out of job for 3 days hah ! - as I would not be able to access the data.
So I'll go with raid-z2 with 5hdds, question is, is it 5x wd red pro, or 4x wd red pro + 1 ghst ?

 

[Jailer]

Whatever you feel comfortable purchasing.

 

[Dariusz1989]

Hmm well they are botehr priced the same. I just wonder what is more "smart-isch" to do.

 

[danb35]

Were it I, I'd probably buy plain WD Red (not the Pro), as the Pro doesn't really bring anything meaningful to the table. But that's just me.

 

[Dariusz1989]

Were it I, I'd probably buy plain WD Red (not the Pro), as the Pro doesn't really bring anything meaningful to the table. But that's just me.

When I checked benchmarks the PRO NAS was around 50-100mb faster than standard red nas. As its 5400(or similar) vs 7200rpms. Also the price is like 20£ + you also get 5 year vs 3 years warranty I think.

 

[danb35]

the PRO NAS was around 50-100mb faster than standard red nas.

...but since you're going to be throttled by Gigabit Ethernet anyway, this isn't especially meaningful. Though the warranty could be; an extra two years would count for something. Against that you have additional power consumption and heat generation.