Why were relevant & important BBcode options removed from formatting bar?

[zoomzoom]

Sometime in the last 6 months the BBcode formatting bar was modified, removing several relevant, and what I would label vital & important. formatting options.

• Options removed:
  • Text Size
  • Text Color
  • Alignment [Left, Center, Right]
  • Indent [Right, Left]

There may be more, but three of these I used frequently in posts [size, color, indentation]. It would be wonderful if these options could be added back, if nothing else to the advanced [more options...] formatting page.

• More than anything, I'm requesting an explanation as to why these were removed from the More Options... [Advanced View] of the BBcode formatting bar.
  • My guess is it was an oversight and not intentional, as the only additional option More Options... now gives is preview, but without an explanation, there's no way of knowing.
    • If this was not an oversight, and was intentional, then More Options... should be removed entirely, replaced by Preview, as there is no current purpose for More Options since it indeed no longer offers "More Options".

 

[Glorious1]

I just discovered you can still get those options @zoomzoom, you just don't have a button for them. Click the bbcode formatting button in the upper right and enter them manually. Actually, the take effect even if you don't go into the bbcode editor.

(size="24px")Large Text(/size) (b)bold(/b) not bold (color="blue")blue(/color) not blue
(change parentheses to square brackets) results in
Large Text bold not bold blue not blue

The codes are sort of like http://www.bbcode.org/reference.php

 

[zoomzoom]

@Glorious1 I'm aware of that; my issue is they were removed from the BBcode formatting bar with no explanation as to why. At present, the removal eliminates the need for the More Options... link, which makes no sense.

• Generally, the BBcode formatting bar in a reply box is truncated, then expanded under More Options... or Advanced view.
  • It makes no sense to remove such options from the advanced BBcode formatting bar without also providing an explanation as to why they were removed.
  
  
• The BBcode formatting bar is there for user convenience because it's more convenient, and therefore more efficient, for certain functions to be auto formatted without having to manually type in BBcode.
  • My guess is it was an oversight and not intentional, as the only additional option More Options... now gives is preview, but without an explanation, there's no way of knowing.

 

[wblock]

I asked to see if the font sizes and color options could be restricted, because they are overused and make many posts much more difficult to read. Messing with font sizes breaks what the user has attempted to set with their browser, particularly for those with vision difficulties. Even on my large monitor, it is difficult to read much of the text in your example posts.

 

[Tigersharke]

Perhaps I am recalling an editor from somewhere else, but I thought that the options for font size were something like "small, medium, large, ex-large" which would relate to common CSS definitions for each, though any CSS can be manipulated. It is also fairly standard that a web browser can either honor what the web page considers its standard sizes/colors or be overridden by what the user wishes within browser config.

If the editor font size has "small medium large ex-large" and the CSS for the theme defines those to be based upon an initial/universal font size, then I'd be okay with those four being the limit easily accessible via editor button. Some other editors may define heading sizes/styles which could include boldness and/or underline. Allowing any size by way of the easy-access editor button is problematic for obvious and already mentioned reasons. I do not agree with complete denial of the option, it is simply best that it be limited, body text size and headings sizes could still be seperate and may offer further flexibility, but there is definitely a useable range as a percent of the base font size.

The issue with colored text is another definite challenge, since there is potential for any theme to also modify text color but especially background color default. I do not know how or whether each possible color variation in a theme could also be affected with other equivalents:

• Supposing two themes, one with black background as default, and the other with white background as default. Choosing black as text color will only be useful half of the themes as would white. Similar situations for any other color. One cannot simply deny black text on white when in one theme because it fails there but it would succeed in the other, the same for white text on black. A reasonable approach would be to have something akin to palette inversion between the two, so that choosing black on white text in one theme would equate to white on black in the other. With each variation of theme the whole situation becomes more complex, and certainly when color choices are less distinct than black and white.

 

[zoomzoom]

@Tigersharke You make excellent points, however, the decision for removal is still baffling for the More Options... link, as currently the only additional option it offers is preview. It didn't occur to me the complexities of font color until you mentioned it and makes immediate sense upon realization.

I'm used to manually writing out BBcode from using OpenWrt's forum, so while it's slightly inconvenient at times to have to manually write out multiple levels of lists and indents, users with a lack of BBcode experience may be more inconvenienced, especially when each forum individually determines the BBcode it will arbitrarily allow and recognize [i.e. a google search for BBcode will not guarantee such code will work on any arbitrary forum accepting of BBcode]. An easy solution for this would be something akin to what OpenWrt does, which is to provide a link to what BBcode it allows in its replies.

• After realizing the complexities involved in @Tigersharke's post and the feedback in @wblock's post, I can understand the reasoning behind the removal of the options; however, it would make more sense at this point to replace the More Options... link with a link to Preview

 

[Tigersharke]

I cannot say exactly how the Xenforo bits are arranged in relation to the editor buttons, how they are defined within applicable settings and how any individual button is disabled. It could be that the 'more' button includes overflow, or would have contained specific items, so perhaps its removal entirely if otherwise empty is the remaining option for it. I could possibly modify pertinent templates and CSS (also referreed by Xenforo as a template) but it is somewhat of a suboptimal solution because most likely the exact same (or very similar mods) would need to be adopted for all themes. I did make an adjustment for the "Share this page" stuff because of a seeming default duplicated widget function needlessly, and I removed some other modifications to some templates to shift those changes into new widgets. I probably *could* do it, but adjusting templates can cause unintended results including breaking updates to plugins or other things (when they happen to be updated).

I personally like the indent feature accessible from the buttons which of those removed was the only one I missed. Forcing the use of nested bulleted lists is not the most elegant solution to the indent issue, but it is the only one presently available to those not adept at BBcode.

With a great deal of effort it would likely be possible for me to be a huge rebel, to force the availability of any certain editor buttons by way of custom changes to templates in my own theme(s). Even if I were to pursue this, I am certain it would not be a wholely simple thing to do. The other reason not to do this, is that I would be doing something contrary to others' wishes, plus it would take control from them and be another potential place for things to work strangely (due to templates involved becoming non-standard). There are also some changes that are out of my reach, such as additional editor options that unless I managed to sleep through a temporary change, is something I cannot modify even in my own personal account preferences panel.

 

[zoomzoom]

@Tigersharke There's no reason to go out of your way to find a way to add back options, as I didn't realize how in depth formatting bar button(s) code is and how many other things it could potentially affect, or even break, should options be added or removed.

Thank you for taking the time to explain both the reasonings, as well as just how in depth the changes are =]

 

[Tigersharke]

You're welcome, @zoomzoom I may not go out of my way to do such a thing, but it would still be an interesting thing to explore/investigate to see what is really possible.