USB 3.0 SATA Dock - CLI/WUI Discrepancies

[Joel-H]

Greetings fellow storage enthusiasts,

The Setup:
Dell T5400
2 X Xeon E5410 @ 2.33GHz
32GB DDR ECC FB
BIOS A13 (last from Dell)
Onboard Intel NIC (Soon to be upgraded with more NICs)

Boot Pool: Corsair Force GT 90GB SSD

Data Pool: RED_4TB (Mirror)
- INTEL SSDSC2CT180A3 (Cache)180GB
- WDC WD40EFRX-68WT0N0 - 4TB
- WDC WD40EFZX-68AWUN0 - 4TB

Data Pool 2: Time_Machine
- WDC WD20PURZ-85GU6Y0 (2TB WD Purple) (Pulled from our dead security DVR)

Data Pool 3: NAS_Backup
- WD My Passport 2627 USB3 5TB Portable
- Setup to replicate RED_4TB

The issue:
I have a USB 3.0 dock (Vantec Nexstar Model NST-D400S3) I've used without issue on the same hardware for Server Backups in Windows Server for at least 4 years now, and 2 Green 2TB drives still kicking. I purchased the following card of Amazon (gulp, the link is now broken via Amazon) "ELUTENG PCIE USB 3.0 Card 2 Ports PCI Express to USB Expansion Card Super Speed 5Gbps PCI-e USB3 Hub Controller Adapter for Windows 10/8.1/8/7/XP/Vista - Self Powered, No Need Additional Power Supply" that claimed general compatibility with Linux, that would give me the better throughput. The card is installed, but only one disk shows up in the webUI. If I pull it and swap them, the other disk shows up. (scratches head)

When I run the following commands I can see both of my disks, so I am not sure what needs to be set or cleared, or configured so the WebUI matches what the system is seeing.

geom disk list:

Geom name: ada2
Providers:
1. Name: ada2
Mediasize: 2000398934016 (1.8T)
Sectorsize: 512
Stripesize: 4096
Stripeoffset: 0
Mode: r2w2e5
descr: WDC WD20PURZ-85GU6Y0
lunid: 50014ee2b9a6c0e6
ident: WD-WCC4M1NX6FD9
rotationrate: 5400
fwsectors: 63
fwheads: 16

Geom name: ada3
Providers:
1. Name: ada3
Mediasize: 4000787030016 (3.6T)
Sectorsize: 512
Stripesize: 4096
Stripeoffset: 0
Mode: r2w2e5
descr: WDC WD40EFRX-68WT0N0
lunid: 50014ee20cea2204
ident: WD-WCC4E5NY23U0
rotationrate: 5400
fwsectors: 63
fwheads: 16

Geom name: ada4
Providers:
1. Name: ada4
Mediasize: 4000787030016 (3.6T)
Sectorsize: 512
Stripesize: 4096
Stripeoffset: 0
Mode: r2w2e5
descr: WDC WD40EFZX-68AWUN0
lunid: 50014ee26a7f5354
ident: WD-WX72D327NVYR
rotationrate: 5400
fwsectors: 63
fwheads: 16

Geom name: ada1
Providers:
1. Name: ada1
Mediasize: 180045766656 (168G)
Sectorsize: 512
Stripesize: 4096
Stripeoffset: 0
Mode: r1w1e3
descr: INTEL SSDSC2CT180A3
lunid: 5001517803d0b7aa
ident: CVMP24930423180CGN
rotationrate: 0
fwsectors: 63
fwheads: 16

Geom name: ada0
Providers:
1. Name: ada0
Mediasize: 90028302336 (84G)
Sectorsize: 512
Stripesize: 4096
Stripeoffset: 0
Mode: r1w1e2
descr: Corsair Force GT
lunid: 0000000000000000
ident: 1331046300FF19060004
rotationrate: 0
fwsectors: 63
fwheads: 16

Geom name: da0
Providers:
1. Name: da0
Mediasize: 5000947302400 (4.5T)
Sectorsize: 512
Stripesize: 4096
Stripeoffset: 0
Mode: r2w2e5
descr: WD My Passport 2627
lunname: WD My Passport 2627WX32D30H3XU2
lunid: WD My Passport 2627WX32D30H3XU2
ident: 575833324433304833585532
rotationrate: 5400
fwsectors: 63
fwheads: 255

Geom name: da1
Providers:
1. Name: sda1
Mediasize: 2000398934016 (1.8T)
Sectorsize: 512
Stripesize: 4096
Stripeoffset: 0
Mode: r0w0e0
descr: WDC WD20 EARX-00AZ6B0
ident: 00A1234567B4
rotationrate: unknown
fwsectors: 63
fwheads: 255

Geom name: da2
Providers:
1. Name: da2
Mediasize: 2000398934016 (1.8T)
Sectorsize: 512
Stripesize: 4096
Stripeoffset: 0
Mode: r0w0e0
descr: WDC WD20 EZRX-00D8PB0
ident: 00A1234567B4
rotationrate: unknown
fwsectors: 63
fwheads: 255

Both of my drives are seen by the system here, and following other threads I can use pool commands at the CLI and successfully configure a mirror. This however did not show up in the webUI, until I exported it at the CLI and let the WebUI search and import it. This is not the way I want to setup the pool, as its not best practice according to recommendations by admins.

I tried to move forward with creating a pool via the webUI but the 2nd disk is not there to choose since its not linked or seen.

I understand the USB aspect is a dark place, and eventually I may setup another i5 box with them and configure replication. For now I would like this to replicate the Time Machine Backup (Backup your backups?) and see how this USB card performs. Can anyone recommend anything I can try to get the disks to show in the UI correctly? As you can see from my screen shot, one does show, but as Unknown.

 

[jgreco]

Can anyone recommend anything I can try to get the disks to show in the UI correctly?

USB disks are not supported. The bridge chips typically have "issues" and do dumb stuff like present a static serial number. This has been discussed elsewhere on the forums. You might try a different type of USB to SATA adapter to see if it presents a different serial number, or you could just use eSATA to attach these disks in a more correct manner.

 

[Joel-H]

I am not understanding what you mean by static serial numbers, for all I can tell they are showing up as different disks to the system at the command line, I can even set them up as a mirror, export them and import them into the WebUI but the disks aren't recognized still when I do this. I also have a USB3 WD that my internal stuff replicates too for offsite backups. I did not see anything specifically saying I can't use any USB drives in any documentation yet, can you reference where USB drives are not supported?

It seems like the only issue I am having is the UI's ability to see every disk. I have spent a few days reading other posts on here about missing USB disks but did not see any resolutions or any issues that aligned with my problem. Why can BSD see my drives just fine, but TrueNAS cannot? This does not make logical sense to me. The output above clearly shows 2 independent disks, what am I missing?

 

[Joel-H]

I am guessing that by "ident: 00A1234567B4" is what you're referencing.

This seems like an issue with TrueNAS and NOT my USB Drive. The identifier seems like a TrueNAS generated piece of meta, and something that could be fixed in software. This drive caddy is an excellent performer on my Mac mini M1, Windows 10, Server 2016, Linux Mint, Ubuntu, etc. All systems that I plug this into, INCLUDING the underlying BSD on this TrueNAS install, detect 2 disks and never have issues distinguishing the two.

As I understand, TrueNAS is to be marketed to everyone who needs storage no? Even us home users who don't know all of the niche insider info who just want storage that works?

 

[Joel-H]

Guess Ill move this USB Dock to another computer and find a SATA PCI card to run these. Just seems like a waste between fiddling with geom and this dock, its nice to have these drives out where I can cool them and access them in an emergency.

Since TrueNAS bases its info off of geom, and I cannot manipulate the ids, this just won't work.

Thank you for the helpful info.

 

[Arwen]

Uh, TrueNAS, (and ZFS), was written for server style hardware. Using unique serial numbers allows the SERVER to determine if a device is multi-pathed. That's obviously not common in home NAS, and SATA does not even support multi-pathing at all.

However, SAS disks, (and for that mater, Fibre Channel disks), support multi-pathing.


As for TrueNAS being marketed to everyone, what ever gave you that idea?

TrueNAS Enterprise & TrueNAS SCALE are commercial products. The vendor allows anyone to use Core or SCALE free of charge, as a community service, with the understanding that if we detect problems, we report them. They get "free" alpha & beta testers, we get good quality NAS software. Plus, there is no reason for every "free" user to alpha or beta test the software. You can easily use the same release that business users install.


All that said, USB is not a reliable protocol for disk attachment. The connector is not latched. Speed is funneled to all the drives, so they share bandwidth. Using USB 2.0 is too slow for many NAS functions. Using USB without UASP feature, (on BOTH sides), wastes CPU time and reduces performance. Some USB enclosures are not intended for continuous or extended use, which ZFS will do in a scrub or re-silver, potentially causing the drive to get so hot, it / they may fail.

I could go on, but you get the point.


In my own home environment, I do use USB enclosures for a single backup disk. (Thus, no serial number issue.) It works fine because the connection is temporary. AND, I made absolutely certain that they included cooling fans for the disk. Further, for me, it does not mater how long the initial ZFS scrub & backup take. All night, so what.

 

[jgreco]

I did not see anything specifically saying I can't use any USB drives in any documentation yet, can you reference where USB drives are not supported?

That's not really how this works. There's no particular warning to avoid using a SATA Port Multiplier for attaching SATA disks. There's also no warning that you cannot use a basket of Olive Garden breadsticks as storage devices. You're expected to use the Hardware Requirements section of the manual to determine what is usable. There are numerous discussions on the forums of people who wanted to use USB and a variety of discussions as to why it is ill-advised or doesn't work. This usually boils down to the fact that USB is very unreliable and it is super-easy to lose a disk out of your pool, inadvertently power one off, etc., but the gimpiness of USB to SATA hubs is also a recurring theme.

As inconvenient as it is, TrueNAS doesn't try to be the solution for every case, and in fact is optimized towards a relatively specialized use case -- iXsystems-branded TrueNAS systems. The closer your system looks to the hardware that they sell, the more likely your system is to be problem-free.

It appears that in the time I was away from keyboard, @Arwen stepped in and made other points I would have made. Thanks @Arwen

 

[Arwen]

You're welcome, Grinch.

I've clarified my thoughts:
Why you should avoid USB attached drives for pool disks

Everyone, give it a read and feedback. Especially the title, it seems clumsy. Got a better title?
Some items might be less fair, so give reasons why, and we can update that item.