UnRAID

[johnblanker]

Hope this is an ok topic to post here. Im a new freenas user. New to server stuff too. I am wondering if freeNAS is really appropriate for me. I want a nas that just does network shares. I dont want parity, apps, or transcoding. I maintain an identical set of hhd on my pc that i sync with the nas.
I want as low power usage as possible. I share my bd/dvd rips to streamers throughout my house. I have been doing this on my pc for a while but i dont want waste All that electricity.

I was looking at unRAID recently and tried it out. Its interface is dead simple which is appealing to me. It does cost money. But it has 2 features that i find missing with freeNAS:

1. unRAID only spins up the disk that is in use rather than spinning up the entire array. Low power consumption. But also slower writes, no striping. But it also puts data on certain drives. So if a drive dies you can still use the nas with the other drives.

2. the ability to expand the array by dropping in new drives and not have to rebuild the entire array.

What do you guys think about all this?

 

[survive]

Hi johnblanker,

Honestly, based on what you have asked\said you are looking for out of a NAS I would say that FreeNAS is pretty much the opposite of what you are looking for. It might be best to think of FreeNAs as a GUI on top of zfs, which (done correctly) is all about performance & reliability. I don't think I would expect the sort of unRAID-like features you are asking about to ever be included in FreeNAS.

-Will

 

[gpsguy]

Before you jump to unRAID, you might want to read this thread from yesterday.

 

[johnblanker]

hmmm, stability issues, bitrot? What the hell is bitrot? Gotta research that one. Well, I don't think I am in a better situation with freeNAS being that I don't have ecc memory and am not using parity. The internet id FILLED with all this "Use your leftover pc parts to build a NAS, and DIY NAS". They neglect all these equipment prerequisites. I am most familiar with building Windows systems using AMD cpus. In foreign territory with this server stuff. But I'm learning!

 

[cyberjock]

Wow.. so you switched to ZFS and don't know what bitrot is? I'm actually kind of shocked.

The internet is filled with those because back in the FreeNAS 7 days that's how they marketed it. But, when FreeNAS' name was sold to iXsystems and they redesigned everything from scratch, it took a totally different form. But, if you aren't informed you have no idea if a given page is talking about FreeNAS 7 or FreeNAS8+. So that error keeps getting carried forward by people that don't know better.

 

[johnblanker]

Wow.. so you switched to ZFS and don't know what bitrot is? I'm actually kind of shocked.

lol, I'm shocked that your shocked. ;)

Up until a week ago my 10+ years of experience was with Windows hardware/software. I don't know a thing about servers. I'm not saying that I am not willing to learn, just the opposite. I guess I didn't expect how much of the server environment would be involved with NAS setups.

I didn't "switch" to ZFS. I started with it!

 

[cyberjock]

Yeah.. ZFS' #1 touted feature is "prevent bitrot" . ;)

 

[johnblanker]

Wow, bitrot is scary. How long does it take to happen? So I guess that is what all the "self-healing" talk about freeNAS is all about? ECC memory is required for this correct? This has nothing to do with RAID/parity?

 

[cyberjock]

ECC isn't required. It's not required at all for ZFS or any other technology. The problem is that if you don't have ECC and your RAM goes bad, kiss your pool goodbye. Read the sticky for more info.

 

[johnblanker]

No, I read almost all of your documentation. It's good stuff. I understand the importance of having ECC. I just need to get a whole new setup because to outfit my board with 8GB max it will cost me >$200.
I just assumed that since I wasn't using parity and did not have ECC ram I wasn't benefiting from anything of what freeNAS has to offer.

 

[cyberjock]

You don't need parity for the error detection. ZFS will still tell you that your data is trashed. It just won't be able to correct it without redundancy in your vdev.

 

[johnblanker]

Thanks cyberjock, you got me real worried about bitrot.

 

[cyberjock]

It's a problem, if you care about bit-flips and stuff. For 99% of the people that go to ZFS, they go to it for protection from that stuff. If you *didn't* come to ZFS for that, then you're an odd-ball because that's WHY people go to ZFS. Not for performance, or anythign else. For the data integrity. And you kind of gutted one of the post important features of ZFS. So I'm scratching my head and wondering why you didn't just use and old Windows desktop or something because you're really no better off.

Edit: Actually. I may be wrong.. I thought you were striping a bunch of disks with no redundancy.. /shrug

 

[johnblanker]

I just finished reading your Power Point. That was great. Very informative. Thank you for creating it. It helped me decide that freeNAS is too much for me to take on right now. It's not something I can set and forget. In order to take advantage of the benefits of ZFS, I need to get better hardware and fully understand every aspect of freeNAS/ZFS. I can't really afford either right now. I was wondering of you could help me pick something that might be more suited to my level of involvement. As you know, I used my Windows machine to share folders to my WDTV box. BD/DVD rips. I used a WOL app on my phone to wake the pc when I wanted to watch something and it was set to sleep after 30 min. I wanted to try a NAS out to simplify things and tried freeNAS since I heard good things about it. Keep in mind I run a 1:1 backup with my media. I sync it every week or so. I don't currently use RAID, but I will in the future. I also thought setting up a NAS box would help lower power consumption over my big Antec 1200 monster. Apparently there is little difference. About 40 watts.

I would even go the paid route too. What I care about is:

1. Protection against bitrot and other nasties that can destroy my data.
2. I assume you recommend RAID10?
3. Being able to password protect certain shares.
4. Being able to add drives to the array with ease (no rebuilding). And without the complication of freeNAS' adding zdevs to an existing zpool.
5. Something that will work fine on my existing hardware.
6. I like the ones that do not spin up the entire array.
7. Easy. No command-line stuff like snapRAID.
8. I was just reading an article on Windows 8.1 ReFS storage spaces. Seemed pretty cool, but would have to maintain an OS.

Help me cyberjock. You're my only hope!

(9. Am I asking for too much? I know I want it all.:( )

 

[cyberjock]

Well, FreeNAS is a "set it and forget it".. But, you have to know what you are doing to get that kind of quality. And for most people, that means a few weeks of research and learning.. or paying someone to do it for you. I never log into my box for maintenance reasons. It's self-sufficient.

But, some of that stuff isn't fixable. Like:

#4.. that's ZFS basic design.. that won't change anytime soon, if ever. It's been like that for 10 years.

#5.. you can reuse old hardware.. but it might up and fail catastrophically and eat your data with it since your hardware isn't really appropriate for a file server.

#6.. experienced server admins will NEVER spin down a pool anyway.. so what you are asking for is already asking for something that isn't recommended(and isn't supported either.. even with hackery).

#7.. when things go wrong there is always a small amount of command line required. You don't have to be a pro, but if you are saying no command line at all, go back to windows. :(

Unless you are willing to bend your definition of a file server to work with FreeNAS(which is not unrealistic for all file servers in all honesty), and you aren't willing to accept some of the things that you don't like, your battle will be lost before you start it.

Even with Windows(plus the expensive pricetag of buying it):

#1 is not possible at all AFAIK. Only ZFS offers bitrot protection

#4 is doable only with an expensive RAID controller AFAIK.

#5 is doable.. if it can run Windows appropriately for the task.

#6 isn't doable in Windows. As soon as you start accessing the array, the entire array will spin up because your data will be striped over the array.

#8 isn't all peaches and creme. ReFS is a challenge. A few friends that have used it stopped using it because of the problems involved with administrating it.

To be frank, unless you are willing to spend money and change your pre-conceived notion of what a file server really is about, you're looking at no good option. You will be making "sacrifices" because your expectations are a little unique for a typical file sever.

 

[johnblanker]

Thanks CJ. Appreciate it. BTW, you mentioned an intel NIC. This one look ok to you?

 

[cyberjock]

Yep.. that's what I put in desktops. :)