Supermicro 4U chassis backplane for 3TB+ drives

Status
Not open for further replies.

jgreco

Resident Grinch
Joined
May 29, 2011
Messages
18,681
Yeah, sorry, out and about today, sniping comments into the thread on mobile so patience. I was trying specifically to recall what the conf of that backplane is. If it has a SAS expander chip on it, the 3Gbps SAS expander chip has problems with disks over 2.2TB and I would advise the SAS2 instead as someone else suggested above. Also if you plan to maybe upgrade the backplane, be careful since there may be a certain minimum revision of the SC846 chassis needed (check backplane manual to find out more). Overall much easier just to get SAS2 chassis even if you have to wait a few weeks to scope out a good deal.

Think that's all I wanted to say.
 
Joined
Oct 2, 2014
Messages
925
Also if you plan to maybe upgrade the backplane, be careful since there may be a certain minimum revision of the SC846 chassis needed (check backplane manual to find out more
I saw a post elsewhere similar to this, but the mounting/screw holes change from SAS to SAS2 backplane and on some of the chassis.
 

jgreco

Resident Grinch
Joined
May 29, 2011
Messages
18,681
Right. If you're not comfortable doing finicky adjustments and possibly modding to your chassis and gear, the extra cash to get the SAS2 version already in a chassis is worth it. I've seen these for ~$400 often enough.
 
Joined
Oct 2, 2014
Messages
925
I'd had the one from certified servers on my watch list for months hoping for it to drop so i can pick up a second, it hasnt lol
 

Fuganater

Patron
Joined
Sep 28, 2015
Messages
477
Overall much easier just to get SAS2 chassis even if you have to wait a few weeks to scope out a good deal. Think that's all I wanted to say.

Patience is not my strong suit... If I can't find a good deal in the next week or so on a SAS2 Supermicro I will just pick up a Norco 422o or 4224. I read some decent things about them.
 
Joined
Oct 2, 2014
Messages
925
I'd take a supermicro over a norco any day, I had 2 norco 4U chassis before they were nice, little cheaply built. But They weren't hot swappable bays or anything it was just 10 internals


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

jgreco

Resident Grinch
Joined
May 29, 2011
Messages
18,681
Patience is not my strong suit... If I can't find a good deal in the next week or so on a SAS2 Supermicro I will just pick up a Norco 422o or 4224. I read some decent things about them.

Read up some more, then. The deficiencies in the Norcos are documented all over these forums. For example, by the time you end up paying for extra HBA's or an SAS expander, fix the cooling issues, etc, your costs go way up.
 

Fuganater

Patron
Joined
Sep 28, 2015
Messages
477
Well if anyone sees a SAS2 version out there let me know. I will be on Ebay all, day every day till I find one or I will ask here because documentation kinda sucks.

For example, this SAS846TQ says 6Gb support or am I reading it wrong? Even if it is, it is still $400 shipped which is almost double what I see people on here finding them for. Not to be stingy but paying around $300 would be awesome.

I also feel so torn. I really want to get this project going so half of me says screw the SAS2, just buy a few more 2TB drives and worry about it later and the other half says don't waste money on that one.
 

Fuganater

Patron
Joined
Sep 28, 2015
Messages
477
It comes with a LSI one or is that no good? I do need to read up on it more.
 

jgreco

Resident Grinch
Joined
May 29, 2011
Messages
18,681
The link you provided came with a 3ware RAID controller. An LSI 6Gbps HBA would be fine for the TQ but you'd need 24 lanes to drive all 24 bays.
 

Fuganater

Patron
Joined
Sep 28, 2015
Messages
477
Forgive my noobness but in that case wouldn't a raid card in JBOD work?
 

Fuganater

Patron
Joined
Sep 28, 2015
Messages
477
Ok so I have done a bit more reading.
I see that the M1015 is the recommended solution. It can use either Sff-8087 to SATA cables or SFF-8087 to SFF-8087. I also saw some people using the LSI SAS9211-8i because the ports point to the backplane. (Cleaner wiring) If using the breakout cable, it can only support 8x 2TB+ drives correct?

I also found an Intel Expander Card (RES2Sv240) was recommended on several forms as it can handle all 24 drives. Would it be a good solution for the CSE-846TQ if I can't get the SC846E16 with a SAS2 backplane?

In the end I will probably pick up 2 chassis. If I can get 2x SC846E16, great. If not, I want to get at least 1 of them for all my 4TB WD SE drives and the other can use all my 2TB WD Reds.
 
Joined
Oct 2, 2014
Messages
925
I would seriously consider just investing in a chassis with the SAS2 backplane to eleminate any issues you may have when using SAS expanders + that backplane. At least with the SAS2 backplane you can just use 2 SFF-8087 cables and be done and have future support for 2+ Tb disks from the start.
 

jgreco

Resident Grinch
Joined
May 29, 2011
Messages
18,681
If using the breakout cable, it can only support 8x 2TB+ drives correct?

If you use the breakout cables with a TQ backplane, yes, each lane connects to one drive.

You can also run three M1015's and six breakout cables to a TQ and that's an entirely acceptable solution (but lots of wiring).

I also found an Intel Expander Card (RES2Sv240) was recommended on several forms as it can handle all 24 drives. Would it be a good solution for the CSE-846TQ if I can't get the SC846E16 with a SAS2 backplane?

Yes, you can do an HBA to the RES2SV240 and then breakout cables to all the TQ ports. The RES2SV240+cabling to the TQ is essentially the same thing as just getting the SAS2 backplane, which has the expander built-in and none of the crappy wiring.

In the end I will probably pick up 2 chassis. If I can get 2x SC846E16, great. If not, I want to get at least 1 of them for all my 4TB WD SE drives and the other can use all my 2TB WD Reds.
 

Fuganater

Patron
Joined
Sep 28, 2015
Messages
477
If you use the breakout cables with a TQ backplane, yes, each lane connects to one drive.

You can also run three M1015's and six breakout cables to a TQ and that's an entirely acceptable solution (but lots of wiring).

Yes, you can do an HBA to the RES2SV240 and then breakout cables to all the TQ ports. The RES2SV240+cabling to the TQ is essentially the same thing as just getting the SAS2 backplane, which has the expander built-in and none of the crappy wiring.
I don't follow you. A HBA to the RES2V240? The card goes into one of the PCI-E slots then the breakout cable to each drive. What am I missing?
 

jgreco

Resident Grinch
Joined
May 29, 2011
Messages
18,681
The RES2V240 card can be sited in a PCIe slot for power, but it is not itself an HBA. It is expected that you are using it as a discrete component to build a complex storage topology. If you were installing it into a SAS JBOD expander chassis, for example, it wouldn't have a motherboard to plug into, and would be supplied with power via the Molex connector, and screwed down to a randomly convenient mounting post.

It serves the same function as the expander chip on a backplane - because it is literally just an expander chip that's on a PCIe card. The difference is that the expander backplane already has 24 ports wired up to the various SAS drive bays.

So you hook up your HBA to one of the ports on the RES, and then the other five ports on the RES to your TQ backplane via breakouts. The sixth row of TQ ports can be hooked up to the other SFF8087 on the HBA.

Read this over and over until you fully grasp it. This is an extremely trite use of the RES so at first glance it might not make a lot of sense. It makes a lot more sense if you have a complex SAS topology with multiple shelves of disks and multiple servers.
 

Ericloewe

Server Wrangler
Moderator
Joined
Feb 15, 2014
Messages
20,175
The RES2V240 card can be sited in a PCIe slot for power, but it is not itself an HBA. It is expected that you are using it as a discrete component to build a complex storage topology. If you were installing it into a SAS JBOD expander chassis, for example, it wouldn't have a motherboard to plug into, and would be supplied with power via the Molex connector, and screwed down to a randomly convenient mounting post.
Just so it's absolutely clear, the PCI-e connector is for power only. You can use a PCI-e slot or a molex plug for power.

Oh, and it's best not to try and use both. Nasty things can happen. ;)
 

Fuganater

Patron
Joined
Sep 28, 2015
Messages
477
Basically I need another card to plug that card into... Ok I'll stop jumping the gun. I'm going to order my hardware today (will confirm 1 last time in other thread).

BTW, Supermicro got back to me:

Supermicro said:
Thank you for contacting Supermicro Computer's Technical Support
«BPN-SAS-846EL1» is SAS1 (3Gb/s) backplane and the maximum volume of HDD was about 1TB. Although, there was an occasion we happened to know that a customer plugged a 2TB HDD into a «BPN-SAS-846EL1» and it seemed worked and thus, customer can try it out with a HDD that is larger than 1TB, but we’re not guaranteed if any compatibility issues.
Thank you,
TP
Supermicro Computer's Technical Support
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top