SUPER micro! But confusing pricing for X9 - X10 boards.

[John Nas]

Common wisdom would seem to suggest you can't really go wrong with a Supermicro board, intel cpu and lan, ECC ram, nas drives and the best dang psu your budget has in it.

So to *finally* get my FreeNas journey started I'm hitting the web and hunting for bargains. My use case is pretty modest and using drives I already have; a 6TB mirrored pool of three Ironwolf Pro & WD Red drives, and maybe a second 2x1TB mirrored pool of WD Green's (for low priority stuff). Not looking to do transcoding or much of anything else other than file sharing to get started. My primary concerns are reliability and longevity -- I want to avoid requiring a hardware upgrade to install FreeNas 13 :)

The spreadsheet of finds so far:

X9SCL-F $78
X9SCM-F $45
X10SLQ-L $58
X10SLM-F $70 (+ $19 sh) = $90
X10SLM+-F $100 (+ $15 sh) = $115
X10SLL-F $80 (+ $10 sh) = $90
X10SL7-F $188 (+ $30 sh) = $208

1. Am I right that the X10SLQ does not accept ECC ram and thus should be removed from consideration?

2. I've seen a few people recommending the X10 over the X9 arguing along the lines that they're priced much the same. X10SLM/L vs X9SCL that seems to be true, but obviously the X9SCM is 50% less. I'm struggling to see what differentiates the X9 boards to cause the discrepancy. Best I can gather the M uses C204 vs C202 and splits it's sata ports 4xSata2, 2xSata3, while the L's are all Sata2. Anything I'm misssing?

3. The X10 SLM-F, SLM+-F, and SLL-F appear to only have minor differences between them with regards to impacting a FreeNAS build. The M's use C224 while the L uses C222 so the primary difference appears to be they have a higher ratio of their usb and sata ports supporting sata3 and usb 3 speeds. The '+' has matched nic. Again, anything I'm missing?

4. The X10SL7-F's standout price comes primarily from it's support for 14 drives via an in built SAS?

Any help and advice is much appreciated.

 

[kingc]

1. Am I right that the X10SLQ does not accept ECC ram and thus should be removed from consideration?

Correct, it does not support ECC.

2. I've seen a few people recommending the X10 over the X9 arguing along the lines that they're priced much the same. X10SLM/L vs X9SCL that seems to be true, but obviously the X9SCM is 50% less. I'm struggling to see what differentiates the X9 boards to cause the discrepancy. Best I can gather the M uses C204 vs C202 and splits it's sata ports 4xSata2, 2xSata3, while the L's are all Sata2. Anything I'm misssing?

The X10's are obviously newer and they support a newer generation of CPU's. If you're intending to use a Xeon E3-12xx, the X10's support v3/4 while x9 supports v2. Also a generational difference for for celeron/pentium/i3 support.

3. The X10 SLM-F, SLM+-F, and SLL-F appear to only have minor differences between them with regards to impacting a FreeNAS build. The M's use C224 while the L uses C222 so the primary difference appears to be they have a higher ratio of their usb and sata ports supporting sata3 and usb 3 speeds. The '+' has matched nic. Again, anything I'm missing?

Sounds about right.

4. The X10SL7-F's standout price comes primarily from it's support for 14 drives via an in built SAS?

Certainly.

 

[danb35]

4. The X10SL7-F's standout price comes primarily from it's support for 14 drives via an in built SAS?

Yes, and it's a nice board for a NAS--especially since, with the use of SAS expanders, it will support well over 14 drives. However, a standalone HBA costs under $50, so I wouldn't think the cost delta is justified.

Another feature you'll want to pay attention to is IPMI; the -F designation indicates a board that has it.

 

[John Nas]

The X10's are obviously newer and they support a newer generation of CPU's. If you're intending to use a Xeon E3-12xx, the X10's support v3/4 while x9 supports v2. Also a generational difference for for celeron/pentium/i3 support.

Sorry, poor wording on my part. I understand the 10 is the newer board, I meant what separates the two X9's from one another. The X9SCL-F is on par with the X10 boards in terms of price, but the average price on the X9SCM-F is 1/2 that, yet looks to be the more capable board (when it comes to the X9's). Is it missing any key features I should know about, and in general how suitable is the X9 for use nowadays? I know it was mentioned in the 2014 recommended hardware list and a number of users are still running them, however the updated 2016 list, even for low-end machines, starts with the X10SLL-F and the Pentium G3220. Obviously an 1155 solution like a Pentium G2020 or Xeon E3-1230 v2 is older, slower and probably a little hotter but for light file sharing and backup (no encryption) can it still be viable?

Another feature you'll want to pay attention to is IPMI; the -F designation indicates a board that has it.

Awesome hint, I didn't know that. Are there any other tips for how to read the supermicro model designations? What's considered a must have? ECC, IPMI, 32GB Ram.. anything else?

 

[kingc]

Sorry, poor wording on my part. I understand the 10 is the newer board, I meant what separates the two X9's from one another. The X9SCL-F is on par with the X10 boards in terms of price, but the average price on the X9SCM-F is 1/2 that, yet looks to be the more capable board (when it comes to the X9's). Is it missing any key features I should know about, and in general how suitable is the X9 for use nowadays? I know it was mentioned in the 2014 recommended hardware list and a number of users are still running them, however the updated 2016 list, even for low-end machines, starts with the X10SLL-F and the Pentium G3220. Obviously an 1155 solution like a Pentium G2020 or Xeon E3-1230 v2 is older, slower and probably a little hotter but for light file sharing and backup (no encryption) can it still be viable?

No, poor reading on my part I think. I can't account for the price difference - based on a cursory look here in the UK, both X9 boards you mention are roughly the same price, used.

For a modest build, I don't see any technical reason not to use an X9 if you're happy with the SATA port combinations (or are going to use an HBA). CPU-wise, an E-12xx v2, for example, is still pretty capable and would be fine for what you're describing, IMO (even encryption - they support AES-NI).

Awesome hint, I didn't know that. Are there any other tips for how to read the supermicro model designations? What's considered a must have? ECC, IPMI, 32GB Ram.. anything else?

There aren't really "must-haves" IMHO, beyond a basic set of hardware that FreeNAS supports. ECC is VERY nice to have. IPMI is exceptionally convenient, depending on where your server is located. 32GB RAM may well be overkill for the use case you've described (although I don't know how much you intend to scale in the future, if you intend to run any jails/VM's, and more RAM is always better of course). I don't think you'll go wrong with any of the hardware you're considering.

 

[Johnnie Black]

but the average price on the X9SCM-F is 1/2 that, yet looks to be the more capable board (when it comes to the X9's). Is it missing any key features I should know about, and in general how suitable is the X9 for use nowadays?

The X9SCM is the superior model, main differences are two SATA3 ports and the extra x4 CPU PCIe slot, for me the extra slot is the main benefit if needed, it can be used even with CPUs that don't officially support 20 PCIe lanes, e.g. Pentium G2030, though it's PCIe 2.0 only, even if used with PCIe 3.0 capable CPUs.

I find the X9 series still a very good option, X10 is not that big of an upgrade IMHO , though worth it if found for a similar price, X11 are much bigger upgrade, with much lower power consuption, up to 64GB DDR4, up to 8 SATA3 ports, DMI 3.0 and all PCIe 3.0 slots.

 

[John Nas]

Thanks so much for the help so far. Making it much easier to feel confident about the build.

32GB RAM may well be overkill for the use case you've described (although I don't know how much you intend to scale in the future, if you intend to run any jails/VM's, and more RAM is always better of course). I don't think you'll go wrong with any of the hardware you're considering.

Right now sole purpose is for stable file storage and using a pretty small pool. At some point in the future it's inevitable I'll need bigger drives, but I know that will also need a bigger investment in the machine to host them. VM's isn't in my immediate plans, but it's possible I might get the urge to tinker. At that point will the X9 and E3-12xxv2 be sufficient if I can up the ram, or will they need an update too? I assume the board will work with any of the E3-12xx v2, up to the E3-1290, is there much point going beyond the 1220/1230?

The X9SCM is the superior model, main differences are two SATA3 ports and the extra x4 CPU PCIe slot, for me the extra slot is the main benefit if needed, it can be used even with CPUs that don't officially support 20 PCIe lanes, e.g. Pentium G2030, though it's PCIe 2.0 only, even if used with PCIe 3.0 capable CPUs.

That was my understanding as well, but they seem to consistently be priced significantly lower than the X9SCL-F. Glad to know I'm not going mad and missing something in the more obscure acronyms of the SuperMicro spec pages.

I find the X9 series still a very good option, X10 is not that big of an upgrade IMHO , though worth it if found for a similar price, X11 are much bigger upgrade, with much lower power consuption, up to 64GB DDR4, up to 8 SATA3 ports, DMI 3.0 and all PCIe 3.0 slots.

I'll confess power savings are quite important to me, but given the price delta it's unlikely to be enough to make it worth it. What kind of Watts-at-wall difference would you expect? There are some more affordable but uncommon Supermicro X11 boards knocking around if I'm willing to get creative.

 

[Constantin]

Also consider the embedded series. I found the flex ATX series w/a onboard HBA to be a great fit for my needs. Relatively low power but 10Gbe SFP+, up to 16 SAS drives, etc. The 2-core X10SDV-2c-7TP4F is a great at example.

 

[Johnnie Black]

What kind of Watts-at-wall difference would you expect?

IIRC I saw around 20 to 30w less foing from a similarly configured X9SCM to a X11SSM.

 

[John Nas]

Also consider the embedded series. I found the flex ATX series w/a on board HBA to be a great fit for my needs . relatively low power but 10Gbe SFP+, up to 16 SAS drives, etc. The 2-core X10SDV-2c-7TP4F is a great at example.

Sounds intriguing but so far I haven't been able to find any. Instead when looking outside of the standard array of boards I've come across things like X9D's and some X11's in proprietary form factors. Could be an interesting project to come up with an enclosure that doesn't require them to sounds like a jet engine. The upper ram limit on those boards is something quite crazy, 512 to 1TB!

IIRC I saw around 20 to 30w less foing from a similarly configured X9SCM to a X11SSM.

So for a 24/7 machine about 262 kW a year, that's pretty significant. However I don't think the server will run that consistently and low energy prices in my part of the world make it hard to recoup the initial investment.

 

[droeders]

Awesome hint, I didn't know that. Are there any other tips for how to read the supermicro model designations?

Here's some links related to Supermicro model numbers:

https://www.ixsystems.com/community/threads/supermicro-product-naming-guide.16328/
http://www.thomas-krenn.com/de/wiki/Supermicro_Product_Naming_Guide
https://www.supermicro.com/products/Product_Naming_Convention/Naming_MBD_Intel_UP.cfm

 

[John Nas]

So last night with the help of the advice here, I won an Ebay auction for:

• X9SCL-F
• 1333MHz 16gb ECC
• Xeon E3-1240 v2, (inc passive heatsink)

..for $115 delivered. I figured that seems like a reasonable price and represents a well-tested, low-end starter system (now I know that's what the 'L' stands for).

Some of the X9/10 and 11 boards -- particularly the proprietary form factors and X_D__ dual chip boards that support extreme amounts of ram and can be had for as low as $80 -- were tempting but in the end I kept it simple and made sure there was enough money in my budget to invest in a quality power supply.

If anyone else is interested in an unusual bargain project, I'd be interested to see what others think of:

X9DRT-HF = $80 & 90
X8DTT-HF = $40
X11SSE-F = $95

The X8 is super old, supports 5600/5500 and upto 192GB of RAM. The X9 supports E5-2600 v2 and 512GB and the X11 will take an E3-1200 v6/v5 or 6th/7th Gen and up to 64GB of ram. That price I believe is significantly cheaper than most X11 boards but comes with no LAN, only one PCI slot to add it, and thus lumbers you with only 4 sata ports. I figure for someone more interested in heavy jails use than crazy storage (or as drive capacities increase) it could be useful?