SSDs as main storage

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I hope this is not a dumb question. I've been using FreeNAS for many years (built my first and only home system from scratch with new hardware almost 8 years ago) and I'm happy to say it's STILL running fine on FreeNAS version 0.7.1 with 4x250GB Seagate drives.

My storage needs are small, I'm using <30% of the ~750GB of space being mostly for backups, and shared space amongst our home devices and computers. So based on that, and seeing that the FreeNAS project is alive and well, I'm thinking about building a new system but using SSDs instead of spinning hard drives for the main storage.

I can get 240GB OCZ SSDs for for around $70/each or if my wallet allows, 480GB OCZ SSDs for twice that. So I could build the same system (1TB yielding about 750GB of ZFS soft RAID storage) and end up with a small and silent system. Not sure about speed, reliability, or anything else at this point as I've only been thinking about it for awhile and not done any research.

Can someone tell me I'm all washed up or point me to some threads about others having gone down this path?

Thanks!!

 

[tvsjr]

Other than upgrading to current hardware and FreeNAS version (which is a great reason), what problem are you trying to solve? It sounds like you have enough storage now. Do you have issues with speed? You're going to pay a massive cost premium for SSD versus spinning rust, and you have the wear-out issues to worry about.

If you're just looking for small and quiet, there are quite a few builds here that are nearly silent, without spending the money for SSD.

And, there's the whole debate around OCZ, that I'm not qualified to comment on. Other than to say that Intel and Sandisk drives cost a lot more for a reason.

 

[mattbbpl]

I'm watching the SSD situation as well. I probably have more of a reason to upgrade than you do (I have a 10 disk system, so the power and heat savings would be more significant on my end), and I personally don't think it's worth it yet - and I don't even think it's close.

You'd probably be better served by creating a new spinning rust system or even keeping what you have. I don't see any reason to upgrade in your post, so it's hard to tell what your requirements/desires are. I've seen some SSD builds on here, but those are usually geared towards extreme performance requirements which doesn't appear to be something you need.

 

[solarisguy]

Disks operating at 24dB are not silent, but your CPU fan would give you way more challenges.

Take a look at 3.5" drives at http://www.wdc.com/wdproducts/library/SpecSheet/ENG/2879-800002.pdf
WD Red 3TB are 23dB idle, 24dB seek (average)
WD Red 2TB are 23dB idle, 24dB seek (average)
WD Red 1TB are 21dB idle, 22dB seek (average)

And a question, are you running UFS or ZFS ?

 

[footer]

Hey guys -- Thanks for the replies!! This is an awesome community, I'll have to spend more time here.

I'm running UFS on my 0.7.1 install. I didn't give a reason to upgrade, and I really don't have one, other than I enjoy tinkering and winter is right around the corner? Plus, I would like to get into a newer version of FreeNAS but this one has served me very well. I'm thinking about going with a gigbit network card since the rest of my network / machines are capable, but the FreeNAS is only putting out at 100MB. I'm looking at the Intel PWLA8391GT Pro/1000 GT PCI network adapter which would be a lot less than a whole new system ... and maybe upgrade the spinning disks to those WD Reds that you all are talking about.

I was not aware that OCZ was sub-par in the SSD realm. I guess I'll have to research that some more. And yes, you do get what you pay for. It sounds like for now, I should sit tight, perhaps investigate a gigabit card and maybe more memory (only running 2GB at the moment) so I'm ready to upgrade FreeNAS on the current hardware in the not too distant future.

Thanks again!

 

[HoneyBadger]

Please post your current specs, but based strictly on the age of your setup (0.7.1, UFS, 2GB of RAM) you're going to be looking at a fairly large investment in order to run the latest FreeNAS. UFS was deprecated as of 9.3 in favor of ZFS, and that means there's significantly more demand on resources. 8GB of RAM is the minimum recommendation now, and if you care about your data it needs to be ECC RAM as well.

The good news is that you can build a net-new system and then leave your old one in place to do a file level copy.

But definitely get a gigabit card for your existing 0.7.1 box, even if it's an older PCI model. 100Mbit is painful to use.

 

[mattbbpl]

Just a heads up: If you do decide to upgrade FreeNAS to 9.3+, you absolutely WILL need more memory - 8GB is the minimum (with a rough recommendation of 1GB of RAM per 1TB of hard drive space beyond that).

In your case you'd need 8GB. You'd only need more than 8GB if you had more than 8TB of hard drive space in your pool.

You should be able to saturate 1Gbe (or at least come close) using spinning rust. I can saturate such a connection using mine.

 

[solarisguy]

I know that I am sounding like a promoter for the semiconductor industry :D

Consider building a new system for everyday use and keeping the old system for backups (with 100 card).

 

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Added current specs to sig.

 

[mattbbpl]

OK, it looks like Honeybadger's suspicions are confirmed. If you upgrade you will want to build a new system - something that supports (at least 8GB) of ECC RAM. That will mean a server class motherboard and an Intel processor. It doesn't have to be powerful, it just needs to support ECC RAM and be FreeNAS/FreeBSD compatible.

 

[diedrichg]

See my spreadsheet to compare SSD sizes.

https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/38092/

 

[jgreco]

Just a heads up: If you do decide to upgrade FreeNAS to 9.3+, you absolutely WILL need more memory - 8GB is the minimum (with a rough recommendation of 1GB of RAM per 1TB of hard drive space beyond that).

The minimum was bumped to 8GB long before 9.3; you can probably get by without 8GB if you're using UFS, but for ZFS, you *need* 8GB. Minimum.

Sincerely,

The Guy Who Bumped The Minimum To 8GB

 

[jgreco]

I can get 240GB OCZ SSDs for for around $70/each

SanDisk 240's are going for $69.99 at Best Buy today. http://www.bestbuy.com/site/sandisk...-serial-ata-solid-state-drive-black/3075012.p

 

[mattbbpl]

The minimum was bumped to 8GB long before 9.3; you can probably get by without 8GB if you're using UFS, but for ZFS, you *need* 8GB. Minimum.

Sincerely,

The Guy Who Bumped The Minimum To 8GB

Yeah, that wasn't meant to indicate any type of floor.

 

[jgreco]

Yeah, that wasn't meant to indicate any type of floor.

Yeah, but users are optimistically opportunistic with that sort of thing. They see that and they'll read it as "Go use 9.2 instead." Heh.

 

[footer]

OK, it looks like Honeybadger's suspicions are confirmed. If you upgrade you will want to build a new system - something that supports (at least 8GB) of ECC RAM. That will mean a server class motherboard and an Intel processor. It doesn't have to be powerful, it just needs to support ECC RAM and be FreeNAS/FreeBSD compatible.

Thanks mattbbpl. Unfortunately, I am not a huge fan of Intel (although, I did just receive my Intel gigabit network card today). But anyway, as I get closer to replacing this system with a new one, I will definitely keep that in mind. I'm hoping a motherboard with an AMD processor will fit the bill. I totally understand the more heavy duty requirements, heck M$FT has been doing it for years!!

I appreciate the discussion this thread has generated. Anxious to check out diedrichg's spreadsheet as well!

 

[HoneyBadger]

I'm hoping a motherboard with an AMD processor will fit the bill.

It's not generally recommended but there are users with AMD systems.

The issue is less about "AMD vs Intel" and more "consumer vs enterprise" - the AMD builds we tend to see use consumer boards, which don't have a clear guarantee of "we actually use ECC RAM rather than just supporting it by ignoring the checksums" and use things like terrible Realtek NICs, poorly supported SATA chipsets, and carry extra components (audio, wifi/BT) that just cause more grief by consuming interrupts or otherwise getting in the way. Same faults can often be found in "workstation" boards that depend on PCIe video cards. "Server" boards usually come with decent onboard NICs, IPMI, and other goodies.

A quality Opteron build with a validated HBA likely won't find much fault here, but you'll definitely be in the minority of users so you'll have a lot smaller of a safety net to fall back on if you experience any weirdness.

 

[Something]

OCZ 240GB SSDs aren't worth $70 each. Maybe $40-50 if on a tight budget. They're low performance, unreliable, power inefficient and all around crappy.

OCZ isn't just subpar for SSDs, they're downright garbage. They're vastly inferior to Crucial, Samsung, Intel and Sandisk.

SSD storage would be very fast, especially for your low storage needs, but without 10GbE I'd say it's almost pointless.

AMD is viable, but you're looking at very old silicon with poor efficiency and single thread performance. As well as the other myriad of issues described above.

 

[footer]

You guys are awesome!

I do appreciate the hardware comments and opinions. I'm not much of a hardware expert but working in IT for 15+ years, I do understand the enterprise vs. consumer grade arguments. Companies pay big bucks for a reason to IBM/EMC/Cisco/etc. for high quality gear. FreeNAS and your data are worth a lot so I totally get the reason to side more towards enterprise class hardware. But of course, as a home user, we're looking for the home user/consumer grade prices.

I did get my gigabit card installed tonight, but had a lot of trouble getting it to keep the card configured between boots. I have a headless system so it's kind of a pain to get a screen set up or move the machine nearer to my test bench. It could be the 'consumer grade' hardware I'm using or perhaps just that it's a really old version of FreeNAS and a little flaky?

Anyway, you'all are getting me excited to start researching some good hardware for my next build.

Thanks again!!

PS. I think SSD storage is out for now. Too expensive and still in its infancy.

 

[Something]

SSD storage, for those with less spacious needs, is arguably a great idea.

There's no reason it can't be done. 4TB Reds are one of the most popular drives and those go for $150 each. 850 EVOs 500GBs are around as much. Their half size companions go for about half as much. If storage needs are as slim as you say, that could be done. The performance would be almost pointless though (and would need a 10GbE to even saturate that potential throughput). Why have incredibly high performance when you have so little to backup? If it wouldn't have taken more than an hour on a normal HD-based NAS to begin with then why do it? Really, SSDs for FreeNAS storage are a solution to a problem that I don't think exists. For things like jails and VM jails SSDs could definitely be worthwhile as the extra IOPs make a difference. I have done that recently.

What I wonder though is if you should bother with a FreeNAS box at all if your storage needs are so low. You could consider a simple NAS, if not just an external HD. Alongside a cloud backup of some kind.

You are right about SSDs being in their infancy, performance, efficiency, price, etc... are all rapidly improving behind HDs rate. Enterprise SSDs to replace HDs are coming with read optimized variants. Beyond that, price/GB has been sharply declining and 250GB SSDs are half what they were a year ago ontop of being significantly better in real world performance, power efficiency, etc...

For cold storage and archival, HDs will still have a place, but it may reach a point in the next 5 years that SSDs are a viable NAS alternative to HDs for lesser space heavy users.

Enterprise hardware isn't just great for the reliability and low power use, IPMI is such a useful feature to have. Cost differences are HIGHLY exaggerated generally. Especially as the comparison is between bottom end consumer stuff vs. server grade stuff. Compare a gamer oriented i5+mobo+RAM to an E3+SM mobo+ECC RAM and you'll see somewhere around the same price, quite possibly less.

You said you were running a really old version of FreeNAS, 7 something? It may just lack the drivers which were added later.