SOLVED On upgrade what happens to extra services installed

[johnjaylward]

I'm looking into using FreeNAS on a new server, but was curious what happens to extra services that are installed (i.e. dhcp server, web services, bit torrent, cloud backup services etc) when upgrading from an old version to a new version.

From what I saw in the document, it appears that the update image overwrites the old install disk. However, there is the option for a "temporary image location", so maybe it just mounts the image and runs some update process without removing custom software/services?

If someone could clarify this for me it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[cyberjock]

If you are talking about jails/plugins, the jails/plugins stick around and should work just fine after a reboot.

If you are talking about software installed on the FreeNAS install itself, you lose it. There's no alternative because it was never intended, documented that it wasn't recommended or supported, and actively discouraged in the community. In short, do NOT install anything on FreeNAS' base OS that you can't lose. Also take note that if you go installing and updating stuff on the FreeNAS install itself and you put in a bug ticket for a problem, if it appears to be a self-inflicted problem the ticket will be closed and you'll be left high and dry.

 

[johnjaylward]

I'll have to look into the jails/plugins then. If I have a 250 Gig drive, can I use that just for these plugins, or partition it to have one partition be for the OS and the other for plugins?

 

[cyberjock]

The boot device can only be used for the OS. You should read our documentation at doc.freenas.org.

All of your questions have been answered there. ;)

 

[solarisguy]

@johnjaylward, you can have your jails/plugins on your main pool/volume (you may want to re-read ZFS concepts) or have them separately on a device for just that one purpose. The second solution, looking from outside and not knowing your priorities, looks a little strange, since that would be unprotected 250GB. And that 250GB would need to be restored (from where?) if the disk dies.

So either keep your jails/plugins with the main storage or at least mirror that 250GB (for example use two small laptop drives).

 

[johnjaylward]

The boot device can only be used for the OS. You should read our documentation at doc.freenas.org.

All of your questions have been answered there. ;)

I have been reading the document, and that is what is generating my questions. As far as I have seen, the document does not specify where jails/plugins are stored, how to configure where they are stored or any thing else. I do NOT want plugins stored on my data drives, and FreeNAS won't store them on the OS image drive. So my question still stands.

I also don't see why the OS needs an entire boot device to it's own and can't just use the first partition on the device, however that is made, either through the install process or outside of it.

 

[solarisguy]

@johnjaylward, actually there is an answer to why. FreeNAS is an appliance with all its benefits (e.g. simplicity) and limitations (e.g. limited ways to customize it).

 

[cyberjock]

I have been reading the document, and that is what is generating my questions. As far as I have seen, the document does not specify where jails/plugins are stored, how to configure where they are stored or any thing else. I do NOT want plugins stored on my data drives, and FreeNAS won't store them on the OS image drive. So my question still stands.

Yes, it does. If you read the manual it shows the settings for how to set the jail location. So yes, it does. You just have to read it. :P

 

[johnjaylward]

@solarisguy that makes sense for the install partition. But how about the plugins? I have 2 SSD I was planing on using one for the main system (plugins in this case since 250GB is overkill for an os drive I can't use for anything else) and the other for a combined L2ARC/ZIL

@cyberjock thank you for only being about 25% helpful. You could at least point me to the section in the doc where it states this. Most people don't read a 280 page manual in full AND retain all the information BEFORE ever using a product. A simple RTFM is not helpful when I stated I already have. I obviously missed something and you just feel like feeling superior.

 

[johnjaylward]

The only place I see a mention of Jail use for plugins is in the following section:

9.1.4 Deleting a PBI
When you install a PBI using the Plugins method, an associated jail is created. If you decide to delete a
PBI, the associated jail is also deleted as it is no longer required.​

I do not see any method of controlling where the plugin's jail is stored.

Section 10 gives good details on creating a custom jails and the configuration on where you want them stored. However, it indicates that the "Plugin Jail" is not the same as the one used in section 9 since each plugin installed using the section 9 method gets it's own jail.

So no, I do not see in the docs where to configure the Plugins jail storage location (using the section 9 Plugins, not the section 10 Plugin Jail).

 

[solarisguy]

@johnjaylward, a couple of points:

• I do not know about 9.3, but the current RELEASE versions are designed to have the OS on a small (<4GB) solid state USB memory device, since it is read-only, and the OS runs mostly (exclusively?, I do not know) from the memory (RAM).
• Are you sure that L2ARC/ZIL would offer benefits in your configuration? More RAM is a better solution than L2ARC for most situations,. ZIL has to be mirrored, but is NFS your workload?
• I do have a mirrored pool/volume that is devoted to: jails/plugins, OS logs and state files (I am imaging that you would want that separate from your main data too), and some scratch/temporary space used for testing. I ended with having it on two small laptop hard drives. Power consumption and noise levels were factors determining my hard drive choice.

P.S. Some people would not offer any advice on an unknown hypothetical system, so you may want to start a new thread and present there your design (with factors that influenced your decisions) and ask for comments.

 

[cyberjock]

@cyberjock thank you for only being about 25% helpful. You could at least point me to the section in the doc where it states this. Most people don't read a 280 page manual in full AND retain all the information BEFORE ever using a product. A simple RTFM is not helpful when I stated I already have. I obviously missed something and you just feel like feeling superior.

I've deliberately been 25% helpful because the manual isn't something that should be skimmed over. People have spent large quantities of money on inappropriate hardware, had unrealistic expectations, asked 20+ questions that are *all* in the manual (gee... just like you are asking questions in the manual). Trying to teach a man to fish here...

If you don't like the idea of doing some work to get your answers you will find this community pretty unpalatable. We're not here to do all the work and answer every question that comes up for every new user we have. We are an all-volunteer community and we don't have that kind of manpower.

 

[johnjaylward]

@solarisguy Thanks for the information about the ZIL needing to be mirrored. When reading the L2ARC and ZIL sections of the doc I missed the part on having it mirrored. I do plan on using NFS as the primary share type since I use Linux for my main computers(mix of gentoo and ubuntu). Given that it needs to be mirrored, I may just repurpose the SSDs for something else. I don't want to chance losing the entire pool if the ZIL fails unmirrored.

My system build is a

• Supermicro Intel LGA2011
• built in Intel NIC dual 10/100/1000
• 64 GB ECC Registered Ram
• 5 4TB WD Red drives which I was planning to run in RAIDZ2 (I was going to do 6 drives, but newegg set the limit to 5. I plan on getting a 6th drive in a few weeks once they let me order the last one)

 

[johnjaylward]

Ok, after reading through @cyberjock powerpoint intro to ZFS and re-reading the plugin/jail portion of the document 3 times I think all my questions in this thread have been answered.

I see that all the jails share the same root path and are created off of that. If I want to configure where the Plugins go, I need to configure my jails first (which isn't obvious on first read of the documentation).

What wasn't clear is if I can move the Jail Root after it's already been initialized by either the plugins or other jail configuration. i.e. If I install a plugin before manually configuring the Jail Root, can I go back and manually configure it and FreeNAS will move the already created jails to the new path. I don't think this will be a problem for me, I'll just configure the jail path first, but it could be clarified in the Doc for other users.

@cyberjock One point in your slides I found confusing in the "Performance of ZPOOL" section:

If you do not intend to transfer large quantities of data constantly this thumbrule can be disregarded. For instance, if you intend to use your server to stream DVD rips of your collection, this thumbrule can be ignored.​

That point sounds like it contradicts itself. I normally consider a stream of a DVD rip to be a "transfer large quantities of data constantly"...

also, a nitpick... everyone is a statistic, always.

Thanks for the intro doc, it gives me a little more to think about before configuring my VDEV(s) and ZPOOL.

 

[Ericloewe]

@cyberjock One point in your slides I found confusing in the "Performance of ZPOOL" section:

If you do not intend to transfer large quantities of data constantly this thumbrule can be disregarded. For instance, if you intend to use your server to stream DVD rips of your collection, this thumbrule can be ignored.​

That point sounds like it contradicts itself. I normally consider a stream of a DVD rip to be a "transfer large quantities of data constantly"...

also, a nitpick... everyone is a statistic, always.

Thanks for the intro doc, it gives me a little more to think about before configuring my VDEV(s) and ZPOOL.

Large, sequential, occasional file transfers (opposed to small files that are repeatedly accessed) won't benefit from the ARC anyway, so that's why you can soften the thumbrule.

 

[cyberjock]

@cyberjock One point in your slides I found confusing in the "Performance of ZPOOL" section:

If you do not intend to transfer large quantities of data constantly this thumbrule can be disregarded. For instance, if you intend to use your server to stream DVD rips of your collection, this thumbrule can be ignored.​

That point sounds like it contradicts itself. I normally consider a stream of a DVD rip to be a "transfer large quantities of data constantly"...

If you are watching a DVD, you're reading small quantities of data constantly. Yes, the actual ripping process itself is a large quantity of data, relatively speakig. But even then, you're only hitting 30MB/sec in a best case. You should be able to do 80MB/sec+ with a decently specced server.

Generally home users can ignore the thumbrule. Only enterprises really have to worry about such things, and usually because they're underpowered and overworked to save costs.

 

[SweetAndLow]

The jails will not be moved if you change theroot ppath. They will just disappear from the gui until you change the path back to one that has the jails.