Old Jails gone after update form FreeNAS 11.2 to 11.3

[Makki]

Hi,

maybe a simple, dumb question : after updating FreeNAS from 11.2 to 11.3 my Jails (nextcloud) have simply disappeared,
I cannot access the old GUI anymore, jls, iocage list says nothing, the command "warden doesnt exist.
Anybody with a quick fix?

Michael

 

[Alecmascot]

Go back to 11.2 using the boot menu. Then migrate your warden jails using the published scripts, check them out in iocage and upgrade again after deleting the 11.3 boot environment.

Edit

Warden to iocage migration script, some quick tips for others!

EDIT: It's possible the script works a lot better now, I haven't tested it, but see this bug track for it. https://redmine.ixsystems.com/issues/27236#change-306289 You might not need all the information below. Here's some tips for novices which will help if you have issues migrating your...

www.ixsystems.com

 

[Makki]

@Alecmascot thanks a lot!! Downgraded to 11.2U8, all fine again.
And I will stay there until is it either automatically fixed or until I migrate the complete system, not interested in fiddling around wether its jails, bhive, iocage or whatever..
IMHO iXsystems should choose one thing and then stay with it for 20yrs, changing it - like now - every second major update - is IMHO Pain-in-the-ass..
Edit/PS: I really love FreeNAS but thats annoying, being left behind with a disfunctional system after an update..

Michael

 

[Samuel Tai]

Path to success for system upgrades

Path to success for system upgrades Too many folks here just blindly upgrade, and find themselves in a pickle afterwards (jails no longer working, encrypted pools not unlocking, or other nastiness). All too often, their predicaments are addressed in the upgrade's release notes, or in the Guide...

www.ixsystems.com

Don’t complain for breaking your system, if you didn’t do your homework before upgrading. The release notes for all versions of 11.x very clearly stated iX was moving from warden to iocage for jails.

 

[Jailer]

@Alecmascot thanks a lot!! Downgraded to 11.2U8, all fine again.
And I will stay there until is it either automatically fixed or until I migrate the complete system, not interested in fiddling around wether its jails, bhive, iocage or whatever..
IMHO iXsystems should choose one thing and then stay with it for 20yrs, changing it - like now - every second major update - is IMHO Pain-in-the-ass..
Edit/PS: I really love FreeNAS but thats annoying, being left behind with a disfunctional system after an update..

Michael

I will agree with you that upgrading jails has historically been a PITA but once you migrate to iocage you won't have to worry about that any more.

 

[Patrick M. Hausen]

FreeNAS 8 was released in 2010 and introduced Warden based jails/plugins, IIRC. That is 10 years ago. Warden jails were clearly deprecated but still supported in 11.2 including a migration tool provided and only now removed in 11.3.

 

[Makki]

@Patrick M. Hausen: Well I agree, having read all the stuff now. But I started with FreeNAS End-2016, and there was no single clue in the Release-Notes 11.2->11.3
I have no clue who warden or iocage might be - and to be honest -I dont even care in this case, as long as it just works. If that is not possible over at least 10yrs to keep that stable and update-able I'll simply have to go back to an Ubuntu VM/Host/VM

Michael

 

[Samuel Tai]

@Patrick M. Hausen: Well I agree, having read all the stuff now. But I started with FreeNAS End-2016, and there was no single clue in the Release-Notes 11.2->11.3

This is listed in the 11.3 Guide, Section 1.1:

Deprecated and Removed Features

• Warden has been removed along with all CLI and web interface support for warden jails or plugins installed using FreeNAS® 11.1 or earlier.

If that is not possible over at least 10yrs to keep that stable and update-able I'll simply have to go back to an Ubuntu VM/Host/VM

Ubuntu hasn't exactly been a model of stability either over 10 years, viz the whole flame war over the Unity desktop. For open source software that has to respond to economic realities, security vulnerabilities, and rely on volunteer developers who have their own agendas, you're asking the impossible. That FreeNAS is as stable as it is is somewhat of a miracle. The ONLY software I'm aware of that achieved stability over 10 years or more was the Space Shuttle flight software, because it only had to contend with a closed system.

 

[Makki]

Again, who TF is "warden", is it the brother of darth vader?
For Ubuntu (really Debian) on Servers I don't care about desktops. Really. it's pretty stable with 5y LTS und upgradeable.
And yes - as FreeNAS/FreeBSD is!
I think the problem is that the GUI of FreeNAS just went away, believing in things like "warden" "iocage" etc.pp

 

[Samuel Tai]

Again, who is "warden"?

The Warden was the original jail management software imported from PC-BSD (later renamed to TrueOS) into FreeNAS 8. When TrueOS was discontinued early in 2020, FreeNAS needed to migrate to a new jail management software, as no more updates would be forthcoming from upstream.

I think the problem is that the GUI of FreeNAS just went away

The legacy GUI was based on django, which had become encrusted with age. Much of this is discussed in the 11.2 release announcement.

 

[Makki]

Understood, just the wrong management-technologies/scripts were chosen.. Still don't understand why this must essentially break any existing native BSD-Jail?
Still trying around, Docker Host "rancher OS" is this the next "warden-fail? No Docs, no apt, no dpkg, opkg?

 

[Samuel Tai]

Still trying around, Docker Host "rancher OS" is this the next "warden-fail? No Docs, no apt, no dpkg, opkg?

See this post. Again, RancherOS appears to be deprecated upstream.

 

[danb35]

changing it - like now - every second major update

They've changed it once. That's it. And it's a change that really got quite a lot of discussion, as well as being documented in the release notes and the manual, as did the deprecation of the old GUI. Your assumptions about the history are simply not correct, and you really have no excuse for not having been aware of it before doing the upgrade.

 

[Makki]

Just as feedback and for the archive. Thanks again! "Rancher OS" as offered for a Docker-Host by FreeNAS seemed much to strange for me.
I've set up an Ubuntu 20.04 Server VM (simply as I know Debian/Ubuntu best) for docker and will also migrate the nextcloud from the old warden-Jail to this (or another one cloned).
So everything still running capsuled on the FreeNAS-Box, ZFS, Backups: Fine!

Michael

 

[hertzsae]

Understood, just the wrong management-technologies/scripts were chosen.. Still don't understand why this must essentially break any existing native BSD-Jail?
Still trying around, Docker Host "rancher OS" is this the next "warden-fail? No Docs, no apt, no dpkg, opkg?

The wrong software wasn't chosen. Warden was the standard, but has now gone away. It was used for 10 years. The clock didn't start when you put your system together in 2016. Iocage did not exist when they chose warden.

It wasn't just the 11.3 release notes that said it was going away. It was clearly documented in the 11.2 release as well. They intentionally made 11.2 the release with both warden and iocage. That way people had a release in which they could perform their migrations. There have been plenty of discussions over the years about this. You got surprised, because you didn't pay attention.

Have you made donations to the community? Have you given back in any way? Or do you just come here for help when you need it and to complain and judge something that has been given to you for free?

 

[hertzsae]

@Makki - I decided to see if you've given back by checking your post history. I love how you claim that this should have been documented better as if there was no way you could have known. You were posting about the jail migration back in December of 2018. - https://www.ixsystems.com/community/threads/now-on-11-2-whats-the-plan-to-migrate-jails.71758/

Your trouble is your fault. Don't blame the project.

 

[danb35]

But I started with FreeNAS End-2016,

Really? Yet you posted 18 months ago that:

FN worked seamless for many, many years

So I guess "many, many years" is only two years in your world. And you knew what warden and iocage were then, so why are you pretending ignorance now?

 

[Makki]

Well I see, the topic "jails/warden/iocage/vms" is probably a very emotional one (?)
It's still correct, I used FN even long before - as NAS,NFS,iSCSI on other systems, but with warden-jails I started in 2016.

Michael

 

[Samuel Tai]

I will now put on my moderator hat, and warn all parties to this thread to dial down their rhetoric back to a respectful level. This is a friendly warning, and I won't add warning points.

 

[danb35]

Well I see, the topic "jails/warden/iocage/vms" is probably a very emotional one

Not especially. But when you demonstrably knew it was coming almost two years ago (and chose at that time to ignore it and, I guess, just hope it would go away), and now are feigning ignorance of the change (and quite aggressively so), that doesn't do much to motivate the rest of us to help you.