New to freenas > any tips, suggestions?

[opaca91]

Hello everyone!

I'm new to freenas system and I have setup one at home for use on 2-3 computers.

I have used an old PC with this configuration (HP Compaq 6000 Pro):
Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU E7500 @ 2.93GHz
Intel Q43 Express chipset
320 W power supply
8 GB RAM DDR3 1066 MHz
2x 500 GB HDD in MIRROR (both are samsung HD502HJ but with different firmware versions)

FreeNAS-9.3-STABLE-201512121950 is installed on Kingstone DT Micro 8 GB (that really small one)

Network:
cable internet modem > Dlink wifi router > Dlink gigabit switch > NAS, PC1, PC2, printer

I have also a weekly backup, trough my windows PC (SyncBackFree in mirror setting) on a external 500 GB HDD.

I would like to hear from you some suggestions, advices what should I do for the system to be better.
Or what to do to prevent unwanted situations etc.

Any help is welcome!

For any additional info that might be helpful, I'm here! :)

 

[gpsguy]

Welcome to the forums!

As far as making the system better, look at a server platform with ECC RAM. Do a forum search for ECC RAM. See our hardware stickies for recommended hardware.

Since you're a graphic designer, perhaps you might want to enter the contest to create a new FreeNAS logo. More information can be found here - https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/freenas-logo-design-contest.39968/

 

[Robert Trevellyan]

Welcome!

I have used an old PC with this configuration

This is a reasonable way to learn and experiment with FreeNAS, but it's not a good recipe for long-term reliability and performance.

 

[anodos]

Welcome to the forums!

As far as making the system better, look at a server platform with ECC RAM. Do a forum search for ECC RAM. See our hardware stickies for recommended hardware.

Since you're a graphic designer, perhaps you might want to enter the contest to create a new FreeNAS logo. More information can be found here - https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/freenas-logo-design-contest.39968/

One of the least expensive ways to meet the hardware requirements is to get a Dell T20 (frequently less than $200) and add some ecc ram to it.

 

[opaca91]

Thank you for the warm welcome!

As far as the logo contest, it's a bit short deadline, but I will sure look into it :)

@Robert Trevellyan "This is a reasonable way to learn and experiment with FreeNAS, but it's not a good recipe for long-term reliability and performance."

How long term are we talking about? What is the worst thing that can happen?
The only thing for me important is that the data is safe. If the machine malfunctions, it's not a big deal, since currently we invested in it only around 100 euros (1 hdd, 6gb ram, gigabit switch, 8gb flash memory)

To be honest, I'm not looking for this machine to work for 5 years, as I believe that ammount of work that my colleague and I have will expand therefore, we will then make another one or update this one.
So let's say this is our "first network drive" to support the expanding business of two young designers.

 

[hugovsky]

What is the worst thing that can happen?

You will lose all your data. It's just a question of when. If data safefy is what drove you here, take a look here and here. You can look in my sign more about ZFS by cyberjock. Oh.. and welcome abroad.

 

[opaca91]

well that is optimistic :)

does this help with that "just a matter of time" problem?

I have also a weekly backup, trough my windows PC (SyncBackFree in mirror setting) on a external 500 GB HDD.

Or maybe I should make it dayly?

 

[Robert Trevellyan]

It's important that you have a backup of the data you care about, regardless of how you set up your FreeNAS, so it's great to see that you already have that in hand. The frequency you choose should depend on how much data you're willing to lose, not on how safe you think the data is on FreeNAS.

So yes, the worst case scenario is that you lose all your data. Might never happen, but most forum regulars are of the mindset that we should take all reasonable precautions against data loss, because otherwise, why bother using FreeNAS? In your case, I'm assuming your current setup doesn't support ECC RAM, and that would be the primary concern.

The only thing for me important is that the data is safe.

Then you're in the right place, asking the right questions.

 

[Kevin Horton]

well that is optimistic :)

does this help with that "just a matter of time" problem?

I have also a weekly backup, trough my windows PC (SyncBackFree in mirror setting) on a external 500 GB HDD.

Or maybe I should make it dayly?

The routine scrubs of the data will result in corrupted data if the RAM has an error. This corruption will be undetected until you try to use that file. The corrupted data will be backed up, so your nice backup is useless.

How much is your data worth to you? How much would it cost to upgrade to a system with EEC?

 

[Mirfster]

My advice... read, read and read some more. Tons of great information here and knowledge is great at avoiding early mistakes that can be catastrophic later.

Some to get you started:
Slideshow explaining VDev, zpool, ZIL and L2ARC for noobs!
Hardware recommendations (read this first)
ECC vs non-ECC RAM and ZFS
Building, Burn-In, and Testing your FreeNAS system

 

[opaca91]

The routine scrubs of the data will result in corrupted data if the RAM has an error. This corruption will be undetected until you try to use that file. The corrupted data will be backed up, so your nice backup is useless.

How much is your data worth to you? How much would it cost to upgrade to a system with EEC?

so question: is this RAM data coruption frequent? and does it occur on regular PC's or is it something that is specific to NAS (or ZFS or whatever system :) )

furthermore : I'm not sure I understand, will it corrupt just one file (one bunch of files) or it will completely destroy data on disks. or both are options?

Unfortunately, the this system that we started with was the only affordable option. Maybe a bit more...

@anodos suggested Dell T20, I cannot find that system in Serbia to see the price, but what do you (or everyone) think about some second hand older machines? (maybe two-three years old...) something that we can get cheaper.

Also, for what I've heard, RAM can be bought second hand no problem, it's like it either works, or doesnt, is that true?

just to add: current machine is HP Compaq 6000 Pro with Intel Q43 Express chipset & 320W power supply

 

[anodos]

so question: is this RAM data coruption frequent? and does it occur on regular PC's or is it something that is specific to NAS (or ZFS or whatever system :) )

furthermore : I'm not sure I understand, will it corrupt just one file (one bunch of files) or it will completely destroy data on disks. or both are options?

Unfortunately, the this system that we started with was the only affordable option. Maybe a bit more...

@anodos suggested Dell T20, I cannot find that system in Serbia to see the price, but what do you (or everyone) think about some second hand older machines? (maybe two-three years old...) something that we can get cheaper.

Also, for what I've heard, RAM can be bought second hand no problem, it's like it either works, or doesnt, is that true?

just to add: current machine is HP Compaq 6000 Pro with Intel Q43 Express chipset & 320W power supply

In addition to servers, graphics workstations with xeon processors (HP Z400, precision, etc) also support ECC. In the West, the go-to cheap solutions are the Dell T20 and Lenovo TS140. It might be worth talking to some local computer shops. Sometimes they can get stuff that they don't list in their inventory (this was the case when I lived in the CIS). As far as used stuff goes, I wouldn't buy anything older than Nehalem.

Regarding the risk of non-ECC memory, bad things can happen. Potentially worse than under a different filesystem. Is it guaranteed that you'll suffer data loss if you use non-ECC memory? No. I haven't been in a car accident for over 10 years, but I still wear a seatbelt.

 

[opaca91]

Just to say that i have found t20 in serbia and the price is.... 540 USD! The other lenovo is 975 USD.. It is just funny...

And good point about the seatbelt :)

 

[hugovsky]

I've changed to ZFS and ECC because of bitrot I was getting in pictures I can't replace. And it was an unknow world to me. When I opened a photo and saw corrupted colors and artifacts, I knew something had to be done. Started to search and ended up here. Never leaved. ;) If your data is your life and is irreplaceable, you should try to buy the right stuff. Like anodos said, you can have the safest car on market. Have a crash without seat belt on.

 

[Kevin Horton]

How frequent are errors in RAM? Google collected data from their servers over a 2.5 year period in 2006-2008. They found that on average, about one third of their servers would have one memory error per year. But, the errors were not evenly distributed. Some servers had much higher error rates (these servers all had EEC memory, so the errors were detected and corrected, so they had no effect on Google's data). Their data shows that once a server starts having RAM errors, the rate of errors per month goes up quickly. Their data was on DIMMs that had capacities between 1GB and 4GB. The data shows that the error rate goes up as the DIMM capacity increases. Today, you would probably be looking at 8 or 16GB DIMMs.

Will you have problems with non-EEC RAM? No one knows. The data from Google's study suggests that the risk is not large, but that it is not zero either. You need to decide how important your data is.

The effects of RAM errors are much, much worse with the ZFS file system than with older file systems. Read the first post in this thread on EEC vs non-EEC RAM and ZFS. If your budget does not allow upgrading to a system with EEC RAM, maybe you should chose a different NAS platform that doesn't use ZFS.