BUILD My first FreeNAS build. Thoughts and suggestions?

[despian]

Hi everyone. I'm new to FreeNAS and BSD in general but I’ve been doing some reading and really like the sound of the software. I'd be very grateful for any advice you can offer me on my new build.

My use case: Mainly media storage but will also be some backups, torrents and other miscellanea. Will also be running a number of jails; a few web servers, database server, torrent server, etc.
Will be sharing media out via nfs, cifs and webserver, maybe dnla too.
Was planning on using old media server as a backup/mirroring device.

The proposed hardware:
Mainboard/case:
HP ProLiant MicroServer G7 N54L
CPU:
AMD Turion II Neo N54L - 2.2GHz dual core - not the fastest but is v low power consumption which is a plus for me. on the down side it's embedded so cannot be upgraded.
RAM:
16GB Kingston 1333MHz CL9 DDR3 ValueRAM Unbuffered ECC - KVR1333D3E9SK2/16G
HDDs:
5x WD Red 3TB - OEM - 1 raidz pool, additional hdd will be connected to sata port reserved for the optical drive which can be run at full speed using this bios patch
maybe 6x in z2, still undecided
Addtional HDD mount:
Icy Box IB-172sk-b SATA Mobile Rack for 5.25 inch Bay for 1 X 3.5 inch SATA and 1 X 2.5 inch SATA HDD
StarTech.com 3.5 inch Universal Hard Drive Mounting Bracket Adapter for 5.25 inch Bay - using this it is possible to fit 2x 3.5" HDDs into the 5.25" bay of this case.
Boot device:
CF Compact Flash Memory Card to SATA Converter Adapter - connected via the external esata port
Transcend Extreme-Speed Compact Flash Memory Card 400x 8 GB - fast and has ecc, worth it for the boot drive?
--or--
Corsair CMFUSB2.0-8GB 8GB Flash Voyager Flash Drive - connected to internal usb port

Q1. which boot option would be better? usb option would be easier and cheaper. would the cf option be worth it?

Q2. I was considering adding another sata controller to hook up one or more ssds which could be used for cache, jails or zil. Is it worth having a dedicated SSD to speed up my jails or just use it as a general cache or both?

Q3. I was having trouble finding a decent and compatible 2 or 4 port sata3 controller for a fair price (preferably under £60). Can anyone recommend anything?

Q4. Do you think the slow CPU will hamper the performance too much? on occasions it maybe serving video to up to 6 or 7 clients simultaneously over a number of protocols (nfs,cifs,http/rtmp/hls), running bittorrent, apache (serving pages to only a handful of users), php, mysql (serving media info data base and some small dbs related to web sites), maybe a few other applications as well. Will this system be able to handle that? Since it will be a small number of users at a time i was thinking it would just about be okay. thoughts?

Any other comments on this set-up would be much appreciated.

Edit: added CPU spec and related performance question.
Edit2: updated choices on hdd mount and boot device

Edit3: So I've put together an alternate build. What do you think?

Supermicro X10SLL-F Socket 1150 Motherboard
Intel Pentium Dual Core G3420 3.2GHz Socket 1150 Dual Core Haswell
2x Kingston 8GB 1600MHz DDR3L ECC CL11 DIMM 1.35V
Fractal Design Define Mini micro ATX Case
Seasonic SS-360GP 360W PSU 80+ GOLD
6x Western Digital 3TB Red WD30EFRX Hard Drive

 

[Yatti420]

Just use USB for boot.. SSD (mirrored) jails isn't a bad idea.. Why not 6 drives in raidz2.. Probably 32gb ram for servers etc..

Edit: I noticed you wanted to use a modified bios? That is do at your own risk type stuff..

 

[despian]

Any recommendations on usb drives?

Unfortunately the HP Micro server case will only fit a max of 5 3.5" drives. I considered 4 drives z2 but i dont think it would give me enough capacity for my needs. since i will be mirroring to another server i was thinking i would risk it with z1.
Edit: You can fit 6 drives in this case. Given we will be mirroring do you think its worth the extra cash for the additional parity? this project is already getting more expensive than I would like.

not sure the board will take 32gb only has 2 dimms, hp say max is 8gb but many people have be running no problem on 16gb. I’m not envisioning the load to be too high. you really think 16gb will not be enough?

Thanks for the warning on the bios. its the only way to enable AHCI on all 6 ports (4/5 are locked in IDE mode by default). Many people seeme to have been running stable systems with this mod and i have not heard any horror stories yet. if anyone has some let me know.

 

[gpsguy]

With the right brackets you can put 2 3.5" drives in the optical bay. I remember seeing pictures of the Noiseblocker x-swing (bracket), but it appears it might be a discontinued product. Doing some searching this morning, I found the Akust 3.5" to 5.25" HDD Sink Dual Adapter which looks like it should work. Some user's hang their 6th drive off the eSATA connector by routing the cable back into the chassis.

I'm using this RAM in my N54L.

Kingston 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333
ECC Unbuffered Server Memory Model KVR1333D3E9SK2/16G

 

[joelmusicman]

Q1. which boot option would be better? usb option would be easier and cheaper. would the cf option be worth it?

Q2. I was considering adding another sata controller to hook up one or more ssds which could be used for cache, jails or zil. Is it worth having a dedicated SSD to speed up my jails or just use it as a general cache or both?

Q3. I was having trouble finding a decent and compatible 2 or 4 port sata3 controller for a fair price (preferably under £60). Can anyone recommend anything?

Any other comments on this set-up would be much appreciated.

Q1. As far as FreeNAS is concerned there's no diff at all. IIRC your motherboard already has an internal USB header?

Q2. If your usage is for "home" then I *highly* doubt you need an SSD at all. That said, I'm purely guessing based on your hardware selection. If not configured properly, many systems are SLOWER with an SSD in them (just ask CyberJock!).

Q3. I've heard those are notoriously bad for FreeBSD compatibility. Maybe a Dell Perc 5i from eBay, reflashed to not run RAID?

 

[despian]

With the right brackets you can put 2 3.5" drives in the optical bay. I remember seeing pictures of the Noiseblocker x-swing (bracket), but it appears it might be a discontinued product. Doing some searching this morning, I found the Akust 3.5" to 5.25" HDD Sink Dual Adapter which looks like it should work. Some user's hang their 6th drive off the eSATA connector by routing the cable back into the chassis.

I'm using this RAM in my N54L.

Thanks for the confirmation. Seriously considering going for 6 drives in z2 now.

How do you find the performance of your system and what kind of things are you running? Do you find 16GB is enough ram for your needs?

Q3. I've heard those are notoriously bad for FreeBSD compatibility. Maybe a Dell Perc 5i from eBay, reflashed to not run RAID?

Thanks for the suggestion that’s a really awesome card for not a lot of money, found many of these for only £20ish on uk ebay. Only problem is it seems a bit bulky for this small case. Can I run it without the memory module and battery backup? also it seems to be SAS3Gb/s not 6Gb/s so I’m guessing this wouldn’t be much good for 500MB/s SSDs, correct?

 

[joelmusicman]

You know, as I'm thinking about this, you might be better off doing what I did. When I first went down the FreeNAS rabbit hole the HP Microservers were one of the first things I considered, but then I read about RAIDZ2 and like you, decided that I wanted more than 4 drives. My current build is as follows with approximate prices:

Node 304 ($100)
Asrock E3C224D2I ($200)
Pentium G3220 ($70)
Seasonic 360W PSU ($60)

Total (less drives) ~~ $430 - this is equivalent to where a microserver would get you, for about the same money, and can hold 6 drives without a kludge.
Add 8gb ram ($85) and I'm right around 500 less drives.
Pool: 6x3TB Seagate 7200 drives (1 owned + $550)

So while it's true that I lost "hotswap" capability for 4 drives, I didn't have to kludge it together. I've got 10 or so jails running on it right now (though I'm the only user), XBMC mysql server for the raspbmc, crashplan, sabnzbd, SB, CP, calibre server, etc. and they all work just fine. Anyway, whether you go the same direction as I did or not, my point is that the smaller form factors become a limitation once you want to upgrade, which it sounds like you do. I still have second thoughts (maybe I should've gone with a uATX build instead to get 32GB ram support, etc). As it is I can get 10G ethernet *OR* add a raid card for extra storage along with a case upgrade.

For you, it sounds like you're asking too much from the form factor and you seem to want more than mine can offer too. You could get a uATX board and a case like the Define Mini or the PC-V354. If you want hotswap, there's the U-NAS NSC-800 (though it's $200 and ITX based, and the Avoton Atom boards are the only ones with > 6 SATA ports).

Regarding the Perc: It might be too slow for SSDs but it's just fine for hard drives... But if you're looking into SSDs, I hope you read this thread linked in CyberJock's signature...

 

[despian]

Node 304 ($100)
Asrock E3C224D2I ($200)
Pentium G3220 ($70)
Seasonic 360W PSU ($60)

Total (less drives) ~~ $430 - this is equivalent to where a microserver would get you, for about the same money, and can hold 6 drives without a kludge.
Add 8gb ram ($85) and I'm right around 500 less drives.
Pool: 6x3TB Seagate 7200 drives (1 owned + $550)

Thanks for the advice. I really like the look of your build, that case is very sleek yet can accommodate a lot. I've had a look around some UK stores and found I an get the same components for a similar price here in the UK, around £300 (less ram and hdds). You have given me some real food for thought.

The thing is the HP Micro server is only £110 (HP are offering a £100 cash-back deal in the UK atm). Which is significantly cheaper and now I’m considering going for the 6 drive z2 the extra saving would really make a difference. I don't want to scrimp too much and end up having something that’s not fit for purpose but at the same time I want to get the best possible system I can, which will do the job required, for the least possible money. I'm still thinking the HP Microserver might be it. For the money it appears to be a very reliable and well built little machine. Yes it will involve a little kludge but it's very well documented and field tested kludge ^^ Searching the internets you can find a number of people who have performed the exact modifications I’m proposing and have very nice stable little systems. I've not been able to find any horror stories but if someone knows of any please let me know.

Regarding the Perc: It might be too slow for SSDs but it's just fine for hard drives... But if you're looking into SSDs, I hope you read this thread linked in CyberJock's signature...

Thanks as well for the link to CyberJock's powerpoint. It gave a very good overview of the key factors to consider when designing a system for use with FreeNAS. I don't think I was really clear on the distinction between vDevs and zPools before and it confirmed my suspicion that I will be better off using an ssd just for jails rather than as a cache. Also I don't think my sync write load will be too much of an issue so a ZIL shouldn't be necessary, worth the extra complexity or associated risk.

I think my ideal drive configuration now stands like this:

zpool1{vdev1[6 x 3tb wd red in raidz2]} - for storage - (connected to the onboard sata ports)
zpool2{vdev1[2 x 60gb intel 525 ssds mirroed]} - for jails - (would still need to find a suitable pcie card to support these. any more suggestions?)

As far as expandability goes I feel like this should cover me for the foreseeable future. I can always upgrade to 4tbs or build a new system if I ever need more storage.

I think I’m fairly close to convincing my self this is a good build to go with. My biggest worry now is that the Turion 2.2GHz dual core cpu will not be able to handle the strain on those occasions when load picks up. Does any one have any comment on that?

 

[joelmusicman]

That's a heckuva deal!!! You have my blessing! :)

I'm still not sure on why you need an SSD for jails though. My 10 jails run just fine off the HDD pool.

 

[despian]

That's a heckuva deal!!! You have my blessing! :)

I'm still not sure on why you need an SSD for jails though. My 10 jails run just fine off the HDD pool.

Right. But I am still a little worried about performance though. I might spec up an alternate build with some higher end stuff just to give it some more thought.

Probably don't need the SSDs tbh I just like the idea. I guess my thinking was the jails will be frequently doing lots of small read/write operations so separating them out onto another volume seemed like a good idea. then i can optimise one volume for jails and db performance and the main zpool can be optimised for serving larger video files. does that make any sense or am i just talking nonsense?

 

[gpsguy]

I *didn't* say I was running FreeNAS on my N54L. I'm running ESXi 5.1 on it, for testing stuff in a sandbox. On a single spinny rust drive, running a couple of current Windows OS' might be a bit sluggish.

As I look back on what you'd like to accomplish with your server , I have doubts that the N54L will cut it. The after cashback price for what you can get in the UK is fantastic.

You might want to do a forum search and see what others are doing with their N54L's.

How do you find the performance of your system and what kind of things are you running? Do you find 16GB is enough ram for your needs?

 

[joelmusicman]

Right. But I am still a little worried about performance though. I might spec up an alternate build with some higher end stuff just to give it some more thought.

Probably don't need the SSDs tbh I just like the idea. I guess my thinking was the jails will be frequently doing lots of small read/write operations so separating them out onto another volume seemed like a good idea. then i can optimise one volume for jails and db performance and the main zpool can be optimised for serving larger video files. does that make any sense or am i just talking nonsense?

Ah. That makes some sense I guess. Normally I'm quick to spend other people's money, but in this case I'd recommend you build it with just HDDs and run the jails in it, and if you're not happy with the performance then spring for the SSDs. Also, depending on your video player (XBMC?) you can increase cache settings to where playback is less impacted by any access hiccups.

 

[despian]

So I've put together an alternate build ...

Supermicro X10SLL-F Socket 1150 Motherboard
Intel Pentium Dual Core G3420 3.2GHz Socket 1150 Dual Core Haswell
2x Kingston 8GB 1600MHz DDR3L ECC CL11 DIMM 1.35V
Fractal Design Define Mini micro ATX Case
Seasonic SS-360GP 360W PSU 80+ GOLD
6x Western Digital 3TB Red WD30EFRX Hard Drive

All in this comes to a little over £1000 compared to my HP Micro server build at a little over £800.

It is an extra £200 and will use more power so will cost more to run (anyone have any estimates on how much more?). However, it will provide much better performance and give me the opportunity to upgrade the memory to 32GB and CPU to a Xenon if I needed to.

What do you all think of this build and do you think its worth the extra £200?

 

[Michael Wulff Nielsen]

Ohh, remember that Kingston memory is no longer officially supported on supermicro boards. This could be temporary.

Your system sounds similar to mine so I expect that power-usage will be similar. Personally I believe that my system sucks up about 1-2 kWh/day, but I have yet to do exact measurements.

As for dropping the SSD. If I had to do this all over I would have included a small SSD and used that for jail-storage, since it would allow the 6 power guzzling drives to spin down for long periods when the server is not in use.