MS Datacenter Licensing cont.

[ser_rhaegar]

Regarding the existing VMs, if you already own Windows Server 2012 R2 DataCenter and are planning to run Windows Server 2012R2 VMs; then some consideration should be given to what the cost would be for not having those VMs on Hyper-V.

I am only mentioning this because per Microsoft licensing, the DataCenter version allows you to run unlimited instances of Windows Server 2012 R2 (all flavors) without requiring additional licenses. Now if you were to run Windows Servers 2012 R2 instances within VirtualBox (not sure if you are thinking about doing this); then you are going to need a license for each instance.

If the case is where you are simply housing the VHDX files on FreeNas and are running them on a different box with Server 2012 R2 Datacenter; then you should be fine with the licensing.

Not sure if it impacts your decision or not, just thought I would add that to the conversation.

The datacenter licensing can be applied to any hypervisor not just Hyper-V. While you can't activate a key on the host you can still assign it and when audited it will pass. They will list your datacenter licenses in an audit and have you fill in which hosts they go to, what hypervisors are on those hosts and what VMs are on the hosts. All they care is that you have enough licenses to cover the hosts (i.e. enough socket licenses in 2012 or core licenses in the upcoming 2016) not what OS is on the host.

 

[Mirfster]

The datacenter licensing can be applied to any hypervisor not just Hyper-V. While you can't activate a key on the host you can still assign it and when audited it will pass. They will list your datacenter licenses in an audit and have you fill in which hosts they go to, what hypervisors are on those hosts and what VMs are on the hosts. All they care is that you have enough licenses to cover the hosts (i.e. enough socket licenses in 2012 or core licenses in the upcoming 2016) not what OS is on the host.

Well, this has confused me.. :D Are you using the AVMA (Automatic Virtual Machine Activation) keys on instances of Server 2012 R2 VMs that are NOT hosted on Server 2012 R2 Hyper-V or are you just using standard keys?

 

[ser_rhaegar]

Well, this has confused me.. :D Are you using the AVMA (Automatic Virtual Machine Activation) keys on instances of Server 2012 R2 VMs that are NOT hosted on Server 2012 R2 Hyper-V or are you just using standard keys?

The activation isn't required to be compliant. They don't check that during your audit.

However we use a KMS key and server that activates all our VMs (and desktops/office). The KMS server runs as a VM on one of our clusters and advertises itself in our AD DNS so systems activate themselves when they join the domain.

Edit: the KMS setup is pretty standard for volume licensing. Datacenter isn't required for it. Just 5 servers to activate server OSes, 25 Windows desktops if you want it to activate desktops and I think it was 25 office for office. You can do one type or a mix of them, each keeps its own requirement for activation (i.e. If you have 5 servers and 10 desktops the desktops won't activate but the servers will. The desktops won't activate until you have 25 desktops report in to KMS).

 

[Mirfster]

However we use a KMS key and server that activates all our VMs (and desktops/office). The KMS server runs as a VM on one of our clusters and advertises itself in our AD DNS so systems activate themselves when they join the domain.

Understood about KMS, however KMS is not needed at all for AVMA. So if you are using KMS for activating Server 2012 R2 Virtual Machine instances; I would think that you are basically wasting licenses/money by not using AVMA keys and having it activate to a KMS. With DataCenter the VM Host itself handles activation (when using the proper AVMA keys) and there is no need to track licenses, etc.

I guess my question is are you using AVMA keys on your Server 2012 R2 Virtual Machine instances or are you plugging in normal keys and letting it activate to KMS?

Reference: https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dn303421.aspx

 

[ser_rhaegar]

Continued from: https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/enterprise-grade-build.40943/page-2#post-264420

Understood about KMS, however KMS is not needed at all for AVMA. So if you are using KMS for activating Server 2012 R2 Virtual Machine instances; I would think that you are basically wasting licenses/money by not using AVMA keys and having it activate to a KMS. With DataCenter the VM Host itself handles activation (when using the proper AVMA keys) and there is no need to track licenses, etc.

I guess my question is are you using AVMA keys on your Server 2012 R2 Virtual Machine instances or are you plugging in normal keys and letting it activate to KMS?

Reference: https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dn303421.aspx

From your link it looks like AVMA is similar to KMS but for a single host instead of your entire organization. Example:

You have 4 hosts in a cluster that you have to license for Windows Server 2012 R2.

If you want to use AVMA you must:

- Host on Server 2012 R2
- Activate AVMA on each host (x4)
- Enter the AVMA key for your VM using slmgr

If you want to use KMS you must:

- Have 1 KMS server (VM or physical, anywhere in organization)
- Activate KMS key on the KMS server (x1)
- Add VM to your domain OR run "slmgr /i <KMS IP or DNS address>; slmgr /ato"
(KMS client activation is automatic with the ISO's from MS's volume site, but if you customize an image you can use keys off technet like AVMA in the link you provided)

Keep in mind with KMS, you're done for all future clusters too. And any other system in your company running Windows Server.

EDIT: Here are the client KMS keys, the matching type to the link you posted for AVMA: https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/jj612867.aspx

EDIT 2: AVMA is a better match if you're a service provider. I'm unsure if KMS can be used in the same context, from your link:

Service Provider License Agreement (SPLA) partners and other hosting providers do not have to share product keys with tenants or access a tenant’s virtual machine to activate it. Virtual machine activation is transparent to the tenant when AVMA is used. Hosting providers can use the server logs to verify license compliance and to track client usage history.

 

[ser_rhaegar]

Understood about KMS, however KMS is not needed at all for AVMA. So if you are using KMS for activating Server 2012 R2 Virtual Machine instances; I would think that you are basically wasting licenses/money by not using AVMA keys and having it activate to a KMS. With DataCenter the VM Host itself handles activation (when using the proper AVMA keys) and there is no need to track licenses, etc.

I guess my question is are you using AVMA keys on your Server 2012 R2 Virtual Machine instances or are you plugging in normal keys and letting it activate to KMS?

Reference: https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dn303421.aspx

Since I started this tangent, I posted a new thread here: https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/ms-datacenter-licensing-cont.41383/ to avoid further hijacking OPs thread.

 

[anodos]

I must say that reading MS licensing materials is about as fun as trying to parse Spinoza with a hangover.

 

[Mirfster]

Partially correct but:

If you want to use AVMA you must:

- Host on Server 2012 R2 DataCenter Version
- Activate AVMA on each host (x4) No need to activate anything on the Host, it just has to be Server 2012 R2 DataCenter
- Enter the AVMA key for your VM using slmgr Correct

From there it does not matter where the VM disks are located, it just matters if the VM Machine is:

1. Running Server 2012 R2 OS (any flavor)
2. Being ran from a Server 2012 R2 DataCenter Host
3. Have applied the proper AVMA Key to the VM OS

Now, the VMs will never try to talk to KMS and will be fully compliant with MS Licensing. As well, you would not need to be entering any other license keys for the VMs.

Licensing stays with the VM itself:

The registry (KVP) on the virtualization server provides real-time tracking data for the guest operating systems. Because the registry key moves with the virtual machine, you can get license information as well.

If I recall correctly, the VM will check-in every 7 days; but that is with the Host and should not be an issue.

 

[ser_rhaegar]

Thanks for the corrections, I don't use AVMA so I'm not as familiar with it. They appear very similar but my original point was that you could run Datacenter on non-Hyper-V hosts and keep them licensed correctly. There is no extra work to use KMS over AVMA, the benefit I see for KMS is 1 system for the organization regardless of host and for AVMA is that it is a supported method for managing client VMs (i.e. not your company's VMs).

I must say that reading MS licensing materials is about as fun as trying to parse Spinoza with a hangover.

Just wait until you have to license SQL server , it makes Windows Server a breeze

 

[Mirfster]

I must say that reading MS licensing materials is about as fun as trying to parse Spinoza with a hangover.

Lol, a bit. I went through all this already as a consultant for a pretty big organization (lets just say they are world wide and no one likes them because of their "Body Scanners"...). Even though they have an EA with MS, I had to inform them of the same thing when I created their Server 2012 R2 Images...

Yes, they have KMS as well (and running clusters too). Which is great for activating Server 2012 R2 DataCenter Images along with other MS Products, but would have cost them tons for the Server 2012 R2 instances that were running as a VMs. Microsoft sat in meetings and never mentioned squat until I brought it up; then they begrudgingly agreed and later acted like it was their idea...

 

[ser_rhaegar]

Which is great for activating Server 2012 R2 DataCenter Images along with other MS Products, but would have cost them tons for the Server 2012 R2 instances that were running as a VMs.

Why would it cost more to use KMS with Server 2012 R2 as a VM? It is still 1 DC license per 2 sockets per host for unlimited VMs.

 

[Mirfster]

Why would it cost more to use KMS with Server 2012 R2 as a VM? It is still 1 DC license per 2 sockets per host for unlimited VMs.

It would not cost more from the perspective of the Server 2012 R2 DataCenter Host (that would be licensed per normal methods KMS, etc).

It is the Server 2012 R2 VMs...

Example: Say you create a Server 2012 R2 VM and use a MAK (Multiple Activation Key) or have it talk to KMS for activation. Now you have added to the "count" and when it comes time to tally up and pay MS, you are going to incur the cost for this VM. But, if you use the AVMA key on that VM it never talk to KMS and never adds to the "count".

Surely, you can sit down with your MS Licensing Rep and probably go over all of that, explain things and perhaps get things figured out. But, don't really count on MS to come telling you...

 

[ser_rhaegar]

Example: Say you create a Server 2012 R2 VM and use a MAK (Multiple Activation Key) or have it talk to KMS for activation. Now you have added to the "count" and when it comes time to tally up and pay MS, you are going to incur the cost for this VM. But, if you use the AVMA key on that VM it never talk to KMS and never adds to the "count".

Surely, you can sit down with your MS Licensing Rep and probably go over all of that, explain things and perhaps get things figured out. But, don't really count on MS to come telling you...

Their licensing documentation does not even mention AVMA for licensing datacenter with unlimited VMs (nor does it mention KMS). It also explicitly mentions covering ESXi hosts with unlimited VMs if you have 1 DC license per 2 sockets. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Licensing/learn-more/brief-windows-server-virtualization.aspx

If a server is running a hypervisor on bare metal (directly on top of the server hardware), such as VMware’s ESX/vSphere), then Windows Server is not deployed as a host operating system in the physical OSE. However, a license is required for every physical processor on the server and every “guest OS” instance running in a virtual OSE should be appropriately licensed (Standard edition will allow up to two virtual instances with each license and Datacenter edition will allow an unlimited number of virtual instances with each license).

Since AVMA runs on the host 2012 system, it is impossible to use with ESXi and if it was required, it would contradict the above bold statement from the licensing documentation.

 

[Mirfster]

Per the URL/PDF you are correct, you can assign/use a license of Server 2012 R2 for an ESXi Host and still be compliant with MS. As well, you are correct that you can't use AVMA on a host that is not running Server 2012 R2. The "rub" that comes out of all this is that by not using Server 2012 R2 as the Host (along with AVMA Keys for the Guests) is when it comes time to tally up with MS, they will see the "count" from your KMS first. Then you will/may have to clarify with them on the licensing situation. Whereas with using a Server 2012 R2 and AVMA, the VMs won't talk or provide data that you have to explain; however you still need to prove compliance as far as the Host CPUs and Licensing.

 

[ser_rhaegar]

The "rub" that comes out of all this is that by not using Server 2012 R2 as the Host (along with AVMA Keys for the Guests) is when it comes time to tally up with MS, they will see the "count" from your KMS first.

I can only attest to my own experience with audits, but the two I went through with KMS in our environment, MS didn't even look at it. They used an inventory tool to scan what is currently in use and on what systems. The tool also scanned ESXi hosts. It tracked what VMs were on what hosts. Then the person running the audit mapped our license counts to the systems from the scan. They mapped DC licenses to the hosts that had the most VMs or were clustered together... regardless of where we actually had DC activated. They also ignored the standard activations on any DC mapped hosts, counting them in the unlimited count even though the OS installed was standard (prior to moving to DC). No questions asked.

I can only assume (since I didn't ask), they don't use KMS because KMS keeps activation counts for 180 days after the last report from a system. Meaning the count on KMS is not something that can be relied on to be accurate. It is a means to managing activations not licenses.

 

[jgreco]

mod note: I evicted several posts from the previous thread which now appear at the top of this thread.