Last edited by a moderator

[garm]

Hi

This will be my first own thread ^^ not counting the introduction.

Donno if it has been discussed before, but I didn’t find it in a quick lazy search.

On a lot of posts there is a small footnote saying that the post has been moderated (“last edited by a moderator”).

When this “happens” to my own posts I can’t see any change from what I wrote. So my question is what is the (houskeeping?) actions that trigger these “edits”?

 

[wblock]

Spelling/punctuation/capitalization errors, mostly, like freenas to FreeNAS. Common autocomplete errors, like "your" is now almost always used meaning "you are". The goal is to keep the forums as clean and readable as possible.

Moderators can see a diff of the changes. Xenforo themselves is adamant that ordinary users will never, ever be able to have this feature. I'm not sure why.

 

[garm]

I don’t really care about seeing the diff. If it’s grammar polishing I most probably won’t see it :D

 

[fracai]

I strongly feel that any moderator edits should include a note detailing what has been changed.

 

[wblock]

That is not practical on a time basis. Not to mention potentially being seen as insulting commentary on the poster's spelling or grammar.

For any edited message, ask me or any moderator to see the diff.

 

[fracai]

So there's enough time to edit a post, but not enough to explain why? And enough time to respond to individual inquiries and look up the post and diff each time?
And it's insulting to post an explanation of the changes, but not insulting to just change a post without explaining why?

If there's enough time to edit the post, give us the respect to explain what needed to be changed.

Is there even an alert sent to the user to let them know that something was changed? If it really is a simple spelling or grammar fix, how are they supposed to be able to learn to not make the mistake in the future? That would presumably save more time all around. And what if the change is an interpretation that wasn't intended by the original poster?

If there is going to be an edit to a post it needs to be conveyed to the author.

 

[wblock]

So there's enough time to edit a post, but not enough to explain why?

Yes. Compare changing "freenas" to "FreeNAS", or correcting "your" to "you are", with the time to write a sentence explaining that.

[qote]And enough time to respond to individual inquiries and look up the post and diff each time?[/QUOTE]
Not each time, no. Most people are indifferent.

Is there even an alert sent to the user to let them know that something was changed? If it really is a simple spelling or grammar fix, how are they supposed to be able to learn to not make the mistake in the future? That would presumably save more time all around.

I am not aware of Xenforo having that feature. Even if it does, many people find it insulting to be reminded of mistakes they make, even with the best intentions. Particularly when they come here for help, they don't want to be reminded that possessive "its" has no apostrophe. Learning better English is not their goal here.

And what if the change is an interpretation that wasn't intended by the original poster?

Then the poster can complain or ask for a diff. Or just complain. It's not like we are hard to work with.

If there is going to be an edit to a post it needs to be conveyed to the author.

Poor spellers generally do not like being continuously reminded of it.
If there was a notification feature, and users could enable or disable it themselves, that would be better. But the ones who would enable it are mostly the ones who would never have their posts edited.
We are planning to update Xenforo some time in the near future, and we can see if that feature is supported.

 

[danb35]

@garm and @fracai, I raised the issue last May: https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/posts-edited-by-a-moderator.54215/

 

[Bidule0hm]

Learning better English is not their goal here.

As a foreign country member I disagree, I'm not here to learn English specifically but if I can learn a thing or two each time I post it's always better.

 

[fracai]

Compare changing "freenas" to "FreeNAS", or correcting "your" to "you are", with the time to write a sentence explaining that.

To be honest, I just don't see how that is worth the time to be edited in the first place. And, if it is, why there isn't enough time to include a quick summary that just says "minor spelling and grammar changes".

@garm and @fracai, I raised the issue last May: https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/posts-edited-by-a-moderator.54215/

And that thread ended with

Thanks for the feedback guys. We're going to take some time to think on some of these suggestions.

I haven't seen any further mentions, but this thread would seem to indicate the matter isn't settled.

It has me thinking about how easy it would be to PGP sign everything I post. I doubt a comment in my signature that I do not authorize even minor edits to my posts would mean anything.

Maybe I'm alone here, but moderators making spelling and grammar edits, without notifying the author or commenting on what was changed, just seems hostile to me. I get deleting spam and moderating insulting behavior. Both of those would likely be accompanied by a warning to the author. But making even minor changes that can't be diffed does not sit well with me.

At the least it'd be nice to see something documented in the Forum Rules. Currently it only mentions that posts will be edited or removed for being inappropriate and extreme cases can lead to warnings and bans.

Maybe that'z just me. ;-)

 

[wblock]

To be honest, I just don't see how that is worth the time to be edited in the first place.

Okay, but I disagree.

And, if it is, why there isn't enough time to include a quick summary that just says "minor spelling and grammar changes".

A generic list of what might have been changed could be added. That would be annoying to those who don't care, and insufficient to those who insist every letter they type is sacred.

If you want a list of what was changed for each individual post, there is just no time to do that. The explanation takes far longer than the changes.

But making even minor changes that can't be diffed does not sit well with me.

They can be diffed. Only Xenforo knows why that is not available to users.

At the least it'd be nice to see something documented in the Forum Rules.

Okay. How about "Posts may be edited for spelling, grammar, punctuation, or clarity. Posters can request a diff of these changes from moderators."

Maybe that'z just me. ;-)

Would you like me to fix that?

 

[danb35]

How about "Posts may be edited for spelling, grammar, punctuation, or clarity. Posters can request a diff of these changes from moderators."

How about you stop playing copy editor? You aren't adding significantly to the readability of the forums. You aren't making it easier to find things. You aren't making the forums more welcoming. I don't doubt you're spending a lot of time on it that could be spent on things that are copy edited, like your documentation. I'm sure "freenas", "freeness", et al bug you, but even with those it's pretty obvious what the poster's trying to say. But when you edit my posts, you're putting my name on something I didn't write. No, my words aren't sacred. Heck, they're often garbage. But they're my garbage. If you find them offensive, abusive, or aggressive, edit as necessary (or, I guess, warn me and do nothing to the post--whatever). But if you just don't like the way I phrased something, write your own post, phrased the way you like it.

Edit: Lest I be misunderstood, I should probably clarify that I'm not saying or suggesting that any editing is being done maliciously or deceptively, nor do I believe it's the case. I don't doubt it's being done with the best of intentions. But I believe that, in this regard, those good intentions are misguided.

 

[danb35]

Obviously "We're going to take some time to think on some of these suggestions" is code for "leave us alone, and stop complaining."

 

[cobrakiller58]

But they're my garbage.

I don't know about you but a big reason I setup my personal cloud is because the TOS of most hosting services basically say your data is theirs once you upload it to THEIR equipment and they can do with it what they like except sell it. Frankly I have no problem with the minor grammatical corrections, I'm more amazed someone bothers to correct them and a little ashamed that I make as many as I do.....