Jonsbo N3/Minisforum AR900i SSDs+HDDs Build

[pSyCr0]

Hi everyone,

after following now over a half year the TrueNAS youtube videos and several forums I am planning to build my first TrueNas build (coming from Proxmox and Unraid) and therefore I need some advice/suggestions of the following hardware which I plan to use:

1. CPU/Mainboard: Minisforum AR900i with Intel Core i9-13900HX, 4 x nVME SSD PCIe 4.0 and Intel 2.5GBE I226-V (as the Realtek 2.5 GB NICs have some problems)
2. Memory: Crucial SO-DIMM Kit 64GB, DDR5-5600, CL46-45-45, on-die ECC
3. SSDs (Cache R/W? ZFS Mirror?): 2 x Seagate IronWolf 510 - 1DWPD NAS SSD +Rescue 960GB, M.2
4. SSDs (Fast Data Storage? ZFS Mirror?): 2 x Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus 1TB, M.2
5. SATA SSDs (TrueNAS OS) ZFS Mirror?): 2 x Western Digital WD Red SA500 NAS SATA SSD 1TB, SATA
6. HDDs Option 1: 6 x Toshiba Enterprise Capacity MG06ACA 10TB
7. HDDs Option 2: 6 x Western Digital WD Red Plus 6TB, SATA 6Gb/s
8. Case: Jonsbo N3
9. PSU: be quiet! SFX Power 3, 80 PLUS Bronze - 450 Watt

Due the fact that the Mainboard has no SATA-Connections for the HDDs I need also a HBA card and have researched that many recommend a LSI SAS 9300-8I card. Does this card work without any problems?

Regarding the two Seagate and Samsung SSDs do I have to worry about to use them as I have read somewhere that TrueNas will fast wear out the SSD and I should use some enterprise SSDs as they have a much better TBW. Is that correct or can I still use them?
What is the best configuration to use these? Ironwolf as Write/Read Cache and the Samsung as normal fast data storage (maybe as NFS datastore for VMs?)

Main purpose for this system is primary as data storage (over an 2,5GB network) and maybe also as plex media server as the integrated iGPU is very powerful for hardware-transcoding. Also will try install some VMs (windows and linux) for testing/work and see how the system performs.

Best regards.

 

[artlessknave]

Minisforum AR900i

Due the fact that the Mainboard has no SATA-Connections for the HDDs

I would rate this as "poor choice" at best. choosing a gaming(?) embeded motherboard with zero mass storage ports for a storage build seems....really weird to me.

Intel 2.5GBE I226-V (as the Realtek 2.5 GB NICs have some problems)

2.5gbe is generally considered problematic entirely and mostly pointless. realtek anything is usually somewhere between ewaste and annoying.
if a motherboard is using realtek as the onboard NIC, I consider that a hard pass, especially if buying new. reusing hardware is one thing,m but if you're getting new at least get something quality.

Regarding the two Seagate and Samsung SSDs do I have to worry about to use them as I have read somewhere that TrueNas will fast wear out the SSD and I should use some enterprise SSDs as they have a much better TBW. Is that correct or can I still use them?

not any faster than anything else that writes to an SSD. there isnt really anything about zfs that wears drives out that much faster. what does tend to happen is that zfs find the poor quality SSDs fast, as it detects errors better than nearly every other filesystem, volume manager, or RAID-like setups.

i9-13900HX

i7 and i9 often dont do ECC. i dont see ECC mentioned on the intel ARC spec page. an i9 is likely to be very wasted in this build.

PSU: be quiet! SFX Power 3, 80 PLUS Bronze - 450 Watt

I would probably not even plug one of these in.

LSI SAS 9300-8I card.

this is probably the only part of your build I would consider good. (other than the case and drives - those are usually hard to mess up)

Intel 2.5GBE I226-V

LSI SAS 9300-8I

how are you going to use 2 PCIe cards in 1 PCIe slot?

Ironwolf as Write/Read Cache

this doesn't exist, so its not possible. the ZFS read/write cache is in RAM.
64 GB is the minimum to even begin considering l2arc (a 'level 2' read cache), but you're usually better of just getting more RAM, as L2ARC needs RAM to even function, which is usually RAM that could just be ARC. im not even sure what your chosen boards supports for max ram because they appear to have spent their time creating a flashy-but-annoying-to-use product page instead of a frikkin specs page. or a manual. I did eventually find it, still annoying though.

overall, I would rate your build as "needs work".

 

[artlessknave]

additionally, there are threads from other users trying to use a "minisforum" that you probably should check out.

 

[pSyCr0]

I would rate this as "poor choice" at best. choosing a gaming(?) embeded motherboard with zero mass storage ports for a storage build seems....really weird to me.

2.5gbe is generally considered problematic entirely and mostly pointless. realtek anything is usually somewhere between ewaste and annoying.

Could you explaint why 2.5gbit is problematic? (software support or because its not fast enough?) I mean yes if I use or transfer files to the SSD-only storage that is correct but the main storage is on the Toshiba HDDs and they will hardly saturate the 2.5 gbit NIC.
Review states:
When it comes to performance, the 10 TB MG06ACA HDD is in line with competing 10 TB HDDs featuring helium inside — it is speced for 237 MiB/s (249 MB/s) sequential data transfer rate, which is slightly lower compared to around 255 MB/s offered by 12 TB rivals

if a motherboard is using realtek as the onboard NIC, I consider that a hard pass, especially if buying new. reusing hardware is one thing,m but if you're getting new at least get something quality.

not any faster than anything else that writes to an SSD. there isnt really anything about zfs that wears drives out that much faster. what does tend to happen is that zfs find the poor quality SSDs fast, as it detects errors better than nearly every other filesystem, volume manager, or RAID-like setups.

i7 and i9 often dont do ECC. i dont see ECC mentioned on the intel ARC spec page. an i9 is likely to be very wasted in this build.

that is corrected but DDR5 RAM uses "light ECC" and this should be enought for my setup.

I would probably not even plug one of these in.

this is probably the only part of your build I would consider good. (other than the case and drives - those are usually hard to mess up)


how are you going to use 2 PCIe cards in 1 PCIe slot?

You misunderstood me. The onboard NIC is a 2.5GBIT NIC I226-V. Mentioned the realtek as my researched showed that I should avoid the manufacturer Realtek as they are not well supported in TrueNAS. So the PCIe slot should be used for the LSI HBA Card to connect the HDDs.

this doesn't exist, so its not possible. the ZFS read/write cache is in RAM.
64 GB is the minimum to even begin considering l2arc (a 'level 2' read cache), but you're usually better of just getting more RAM, as L2ARC needs RAM to even function, which is usually RAM that could just be ARC. im not even sure what your chosen boards supports for max ram because they appear to have spent their time creating a flashy-but-annoying-to-use product page instead of a frikkin specs page. or a manual. I did eventually find it, still annoying though.

max supported RAM ist 96GB with two 48 DIMMs.

overall, I would rate your build as "needs work".

Hi @artlessknave

First thank you for your time reviewing my thread. I have commented your answer.
So your conclusion is that this build will not work and I will not get good performance? This build should be just an lab/experience one to get familiar with TrueNas and if it works without any problems, will be used longer.

 

[Etorix]

DDR5's "on-die ECC" is not the same thing as genuine ECC.
As for the SSDs, you have to define your needs and decide on pool layout first; then possibly get matching hardware. Do not lokk at slots on tehn board, fill them and then ask what you could do with the drives… SLOG is generally useless in a home server, and with 64 GB RAM it's dubious whether L2ARC would be of actual use. A pair of 1 TB SSDs for TrueNAS is a triple waste: Waste of space, waste of ports for actual storage, waste of resources for non-necessary redundant boot.

For a 8-bay case, you'd want a motherboard with 8 SATA ports, and then boot for a small and cheap M.2 NVMe drive to preserve these ports. (There are plenty of 16 GB Optane M10 drives available from Chinese sellers on eBay.)

 

[ChrisRJ]

after following now over a half year the TrueNAS youtube videos and several forums

Please be advised that most YouTube videos on TrueNAS are rubbish (Lawrence Systems is a notable exception). I don't know how this goes for other forums, but I would be skeptical here as well.

If you want to have a stable system with TrueNAS, which is very different, from getting things up and running, you should be ready to invest considerable time. ZFS is very particular about a number of things and doing stuff the normal way, will likely make you loose data.

 

[Etorix]

Mini-ITX is a wallet killer, and 8 SATA ports does not help. But for the price of a 600 E Minisforum board you could have a Supermicro A2SDi (-8C-LN4F or -H-TF), an AsRockRack X570D4I-2T (plus ECC-capable Ryzen 3000/5000), AsRockRack E3C246D4I-2T (with cheap Core i3-9100, or Xeon E-2100/2200) or AsRock Rack E3C256D4I-2T (Xeon E-2300)—the Xeon E options will require some extra budget for the CPU.

Keeping the SAS HBA, you could use cheaper boards: Supermicro X11SCL-IF, X12STL-IF, X13SCL-IF, Asus P12R-I—or the good old X10SDV.

And, if you go off the well-travelled road there's the "absolutely-can't-beat-the-price" option:

Gigabyte MJ11-EC1 AMD EPYC 3151 4x2,7 Ghz Mini-ITX Mainboard+ ATX Adapter Server - RAM-König

Gigabyte Mini ITX Mainbord / AMD EPYC Gigabyte MJ11-EC1 Server Mainboard / AMD EPYC 4C/8T 2,7Ghz - 2,9 Ghz 45W TPM Inkl ATX 24 Pin Adapter

www.ram-koenig.de

a 45W, 8-core EPYC 3151 for 60 E with the (mandatory!) power adapter; 8 SATA ports with a SlimSAS (SFF-8654) 4i to SATA breakout cable; takes good and cheap DDR4 RDIMM
Replace the fan by a quieter model (Noctua NF-A6x25), 3D-print a backplate and you're all set—unless you want a better NAS than the on-board i210 because fitting a NIC to the SlimSAS 8i connector which replaces the PCIe slot is going to be a major pain in a mini-ITX case.

 

[artlessknave]

You misunderstood me. The onboard NIC is a 2.5GBIT NIC I226-V. Mentioned the realtek as my researched showed that I should avoid the manufacturer Realtek as they are not well supported in TrueNAS. So the PCIe slot should be used for the LSI HBA Card to connect the HDDs.

ahh. apologies. i knew I had something off but I coudlnt see what it was. this make so much more sense.

So your conclusion is that this build will not work and I will not get good performance? This build should be just an lab/experience one to get familiar with TrueNas and if it works without any problems, will be used longer.

I did not say it wouldnt 'work'; what i was trying to say was it will not work nearly as well as it could if you followed the recommendations given by some of the most knowledgeable truenas and zfs people in the world. you are sacrificing server features in trade for features that are useless in a server (eg audio - this is not going to help your storage in any way whatsoever). if you already HAD this hardware, and wanted to use it, while not ideal, that would be a whole different matter; it's very hard to beat a price of "I already have this", but if you are BUYING it for this purpose? no, get the right hardware.

its like saying "I want a truck, but im going to buy a smartcar to see if a truck will work for me, and then I will buy a truck if the smartcar-as-a-truck experiment works". the parameters of your experiment *cant* even test the same things.

one of the reasons I chose to reply, however, is that you invested *some* effort into it; avoing realtek, LSI HBA, WD red+, so the general outline just needs some work, not be thrown out entirely.

if you had said "I will virtualize truenas...." I might have just replied "NOOOOO!!!!"

Could you explaint why 2.5gbit is problematic? (software support or because its not fast enough?) I mean yes if I use or transfer files to the SSD-only storage that is correct but the main storage is on the Toshiba HDDs and they will hardly saturate the 2.5 gbit NIC.
Review states:
When it comes to performance, the 10 TB MG06ACA HDD is in line with competing 10 TB HDDs featuring helium inside — it is speced for 237 MiB/s (249 MB/s) sequential data transfer rate, which is slightly lower compared to around 255 MB/s offered by 12 TB rivals

realistically, you should expect a max of ~150MB/s from any spinner. i dont really care what the specs say. your pool will be the speed of the SLOWEST of any device in it, and hard drives generally have some variances. so if you have 6 hero drives that can do 200MB/s and 1 runt at 150MB/s, you are gonna get 150MB/s.
2.5gb ws mostly skipped by drivers, manufacturers and developers. why have 1/4 of 10gbe when you could just have 10gbe instead?
now the numbers are 100gbe. as such, just get 1gbe or 10gbe if possible. no point aming for 2.5. if you get it, fine, but eh.

DDR5 RAM uses "light ECC"

I have no idea what this even is. a google search didnt tell me a damn thing.
that kind of tells me this is buzzword/PR babble? unsure.

max supported RAM ist 96GB with two 48 DIMMs.

ya i did find eventually. i still hate the website design. its not even in a consistant location across the damn site.
96 is an odd number. ideally, you want a board that can handle as much RAM as you can afford now, and as much as you might be able to afford to add later.