Home NAS to build alongside already running Home Server: no VMs, no Docker, no Jails, just NAS

[bytesontheroad]

Hi everyone,

I just registered because I'm super thrilled to get into the FreeNAS world.
I'll tell you my story. I need to substitute my old off-the-shelf NAS from 2012 when my needs weren't as complex as they are now. Eight years ago I bought a simple Synology solution for personal files, media and backup of my laptop and mobile phone. It did its job and it has been upgraded through the years until a bunch of months ago support was dropped (I understand you cannot support devices for so many years, we are not talking about some low end Samsung phone which doesn't get even a major version upgrade). My needs changed with the time passing and last year I decided to make a Home Server for many different purposes. It's based on the Supermicro M11SDV-8C-LN4F motherboard and it's composed of a EPYC 3251 8 cores/16 threads, 64 GB of DDR4 Registered ECC RAM and a software raid of 2 Samsung EVO SSDs while the network side is backed by 4 1Gb/s NICs. Still I have the chance of putting a PCI Express card for a 10 Gb/s experience when I'll need it. Since there is no space for mechanical HDDs and I want to keep virtualizing machines on it I need to set up a different system to substitute my old NAS.

Major points I want for my next solution are going to be the following.

- FreeNAS (of course!)
- 3.5" disks
- silent
- 4 bays minimum
- IPMI support, if Supermicro is better because I would need to manage only one kind of IPMI interface since I already have one
- no need for Plex, VMs, containers, transcoding, etc
- don't preclude the chance to go with 10Gb/s in the future (one SFP+ port would be very good or at least a PCI Express solution as in the other system)
- cannot spend too much right now but I can delay some expenses to some months from now (placing 8 or 16 GB of RAM now and buying other next fall for example)

First thing I was thinking about was the chassis. Considering I don't live in the USA right now I need to buy something that can be shipped to Europe someway. I found some good candidates, even from old posts on other forums like this on LTT, and at the end I think I will go with the Node 304.

The question becomes now: which motherboard should I go for? I really don't know which CPU is enough for my needs and which is not and thus a no go.

 

[demon]

AFAIK the Node 304 only has 6 bays. I used a Node 804 for mine, which has 8 (and all are filled), so if you want a fair amount of room, you might consider that.

If you want something inexpensive, it looks like you could find a SuperMicro X10SLM-F for fairly cheap on eBay, and pair it with a Haswell or Haswell-R Pentium G3xxx CPU - it's 2c/2t, so it definitely wouldn't be suitable for running much other than FreeNAS itself, but if you're shooting for NAS function only, as you say, no jails/VMs, it should definitely fill the bill. You could look at something like this, even:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Supermicro...464117?hash=item4b74d1f575:g:fxYAAOSwcaZeUxLz

which would get you an appropriate CPU and RAM. Just a thought.

(Edit: Note that this board is MicroATX, not MiniITX, so you'd have to go with a Node 804. Having done a MiniITX build myself for my first NAS, I'd say you'd be better off not insisting on MiniITX.)

 

[Adrian]

Welcome!

Take a look at the 3 new FreeNAS Minis and especially the FreeNAS Mini XL+ (8 * 3.5" bays, 2 * 10GbE, IPMI,...) which has a modified Supermicro board. I am in the UK and bought it from iXsystems on amazon.com. It arrived very quickly. You could start with 2 mirrored disks (and a spare), burn all 3 in, and off you go. No risk of destroying anything expensive.

I am keen on iXsystems low end systems. Their hardware and support are excellent which for me makes the price premium worth it.

 

[bytesontheroad]

AFAIK the Node 304 only has 6 bays. I used a Node 804 for mine, which has 8 (and all are filled), so if you want a fair amount of room, you might consider that.

For my own needs I don't thik I would go much over 4 bays, counting that I'm coming from 8 years of RAID 1 with just 2 TB RAW (1TB usable). It's true that now I will put not only backup of documents but also of VMs from the other machine not counting the big 4k movies which I could have.
Would have 6 bays be that a constraint? I have a cupboard where I will keep the NAS and the 804 seems to be a lot bigger than the 304.

If you want something inexpensive, it looks like you could find a SuperMicro X10SLM-F for fairly cheap on eBay, and pair it with a Haswell or Haswell-R Pentium G3xxx CPU - it's 2c/2t, so it definitely wouldn't be suitable for running much other than FreeNAS itself, but if you're shooting for NAS function only, as you say, no jails/VMs, it should definitely fill the bill. You could look at something like this, even:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Supermicro...464117?hash=item4b74d1f575:g:fxYAAOSwcaZeUxLz

which would get you an appropriate CPU and RAM. Just a thought.

I'll look for info on that kind of motherboards, thanks. That specific Ebay link is not useful for me, though, because I don't live in the US right now and I need someone which ships to Europe.

(Edit: Note that this board is MicroATX, not MiniITX, so you'd have to go with a Node 804. Having done a MiniITX build myself for my first NAS, I'd say you'd be better off not insisting on MiniITX.)

Could you explain a little bit more about the Mini-ITX vs Micro-ATX stuff? My actual Home Server is a Mini-ITX system and I'm perfectly fine with that, especially for the dimensions and the noise. I don't need graphics card or a full fledged rack unit (right now, maybe in the future I'm going bigger) which would require bigger spaces and thus a Micro-ATX would be maybe a better solution.
Would it because of the different upgrade options?

Welcome!

Take a look at the 3 new FreeNAS Minis and especially the FreeNAS Mini XL+ (8 * 3.5" bays, 2 * 10GbE, IPMI,...) which has a modified Supermicro board. I am in the UK and bought it from iXsystems on amazon.com. It arrived very quickly. You could start with 2 mirrored disks (and a spare), burn all 3 in, and off you go. No risk of destroying anything expensive.

I am keen on iXsystems low end systems. Their hardware and support are excellent which for me makes the price premium worth it.

Thanks for your opinion. I already checked the preconfigured solutions of iXsystems but even if the out-of-the-box experience would be great I don't need the support since I want to do everything on my own. Moreover I want some upgrade option and I don't know if the hardware already configured by iXsystems is oversized for my NAS-only needs since it could cover virtualization and other services as well to target as many entry level consumers as possible.
I'll recheck the specs and maybe look for motherboards of the same line for a custom build or maybe I'll decide for the "easy" solution. Tomorrow morning after some hours of sleep I could have better optionions. Thanks again. :)

 

[deneb]

If you want something inexpensive, it looks like you could find a SuperMicro X10SLM-F for fairly cheap on eBay, and pair it with a Haswell or Haswell-R Pentium G3xxx CPU - it's 2c/2t, so it definitely wouldn't be suitable for running much other than FreeNAS itself, but if you're shooting for NAS function only, as you say, no jails/VMs, it should definitely fill the bill. You could look at something like this, even:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Supermicro...464117?hash=item4b74d1f575:g:fxYAAOSwcaZeUxLz

I do not think that this motherboard/cpu limits the NAS too much, I have been testing freenas for 6 months on a J900 using 3 jails (nextcloud, emby and transmission). Almost no performance problems so far. So I think that with some limitation, this motherboard can be suitable also for something more than a simple NAS, for example you can also mount an i3 cpu. Anyway I was looking at this motherboard model as well, and I found some options in europe: motherboard and cpu.

I am also trying to build a small NAS, but I could't find a good mini ITX setup right now. For good I mean using server hw, ECC support, 16/32 GB of ram and enough space for for HDD.

 

[ornias]

I don't know if the hardware already configured by iXsystems is oversized for my NAS-only needs since it could cover virtualization and other services as well to target as many entry level consumers as possible.

The hardware configured by IXsystems isn't that much overpowered. I wouldn't call it anywhere close to ideal for virtualisation and the hardware is actually server grade, not consumer grade. Targeting at consumers is mostly due to formfactor (not rackmount) and support (less), not really the hardware.
Calling a 2, 4 or 8 core overpowered for just a NAS, I think you are not going to get much support here going even lower-end.

 

[Adrian]

The hardware configured by IXsystems isn't that much overpowered. I wouldn't call it anywhere close to ideal for virtualisation and the hardware is actually server grade, not consumer grade. Targeting at consumers is mostly due to formfactor (not rackmount) and support (less), not really the hardware.

I wonder what proportion of the FreeNAS Mini owners are actually small businesses rather than individuals. Quite a few advantages over a real server - small footprint, not to obtrusive, quiet.

 

[ornias]

I wonder what proportion of the FreeNAS Mini owners are actually small businesses rather than individuals. Quite a few advantages over a real server - small footprint, not to obtrusive, quiet.

Thats a good point, I would heavily advice such a device for real (family scale) smb users...
Footprint, Power,Pricepoint is a WAY better deal than for example synology imho.

 

[bytesontheroad]

I do not think that this motherboard/cpu limits the NAS too much, I have been testing freenas for 6 months on a J900 using 3 jails (nextcloud, emby and transmission). Almost no performance problems so far. So I think that with some limitation, this motherboard can be suitable also for something more than a simple NAS, for example you can also mount an i3 cpu. Anyway I was looking at this motherboard model as well, and I found some options in europe: motherboard and cpu.

A lower end CPU which can be upgraded afterwards could be another solution, actually. I'm thinking if I should go that direction to save the costs and start.

I am also trying to build a small NAS, but I could't find a good mini ITX setup right now. For good I mean using server hw, ECC support, 16/32 GB of ram and enough space for for HDD.

That are exactly my needs.

The hardware configured by IXsystems isn't that much overpowered. I wouldn't call it anywhere close to ideal for virtualisation and the hardware is actually server grade, not consumer grade. Targeting at consumers is mostly due to formfactor (not rackmount) and support (less), not really the hardware.

Hardware not ideal for virtualization but just for NAS purposes and server grade, with form factor targeting consumers and not support whatsoever (with low consumptions)? That is exactly what I need!

Calling a 2, 4 or 8 core overpowered for just a NAS, I think you are not going to get much support here going even lower-end.

I don't get your point, frankly. I read extensively that people use the Mini XL+ not only for storage but also for other tasks. If it works for them that way and I need only a part of their needs then it's overpowered, by definition.

I wonder what proportion of the FreeNAS Mini owners are actually small businesses rather than individuals. Quite a few advantages over a real server - small footprint, not to obtrusive, quiet.

If we are talking about non technical people that need something that "just works" I agree. My biggest sin is that I know I will like to get my hands dirty, even just for fun, so I'm wondering if I should go for the "easy" solution. Maybe it's a yes, maybe not. We'll see.

 

[bytesontheroad]

I would like to reconsider one of the cases I evaluated. I found that the case used by Supermicro for its solutions is actually just an Ablecom rebranded. It seems to be really cheap and surprisingly I can find it in Europe without problems.

P.S. I wanted to edit my last post but there is no edit button, as far as I can see.

 

[ornias]

I don't get your point, frankly. I read extensively that people use the Mini XL+ not only for storage but also for other tasks. If it works for them that way and I need only a part of their needs then it's overpowered, by definition.

The mini XL+ is barely (actually I don't think it is) able to saturate its 10GB NIC with the upcomming ZSTD compression on default setting, thats WITHOUT virtualisation or jails included. I think the 8-core atom and the 8 drives is quite a good pick for saturating a 10GB NIC.

If you want the disks of the Mini XL+ with the CPU of one of the lower tiers you're out of luck indeed.
Anyway, thats not what you want and i'll let it slide.

What I currently run as a small NAS which has about the performance/design you want:

Fujitsu motherboard (about 130 euros)
Intel G5400 (60 eurobucks)
2x 16gb ram (145 euro's)
1x Melanox connectx-3 (65 bucks)
1x LSI HBA (70 bucks)
1x good quality PSU 80 bucks
6x Toshiba HDD (lets ignore disks for now)

thats about 550 bucks excluding case or disks, for performance thats on-par with the FreeNAS mini E+.

 

[bytesontheroad]

The mini XL+ is barely (actually I don't think it is) able to saturate its 10GB NIC with the upcomming ZSTD compression on default setting, thats WITHOUT virtualisation or jails included. I think the 8-core atom and the 8 drives is quite a good pick for saturating a 10GB NIC.

If you want the disks of the Mini XL+ with the CPU of one of the lower tiers you're out of luck indeed.
Anyway, thats not what you want and i'll let it slide.

I'm not saying I don't want something powerful enough to saturate 10Gb/s, I'm saying I don't want something that would be capable of doing that while doing other tasks I don't need. I get that in your opinion a 8-core CPU would work for a NAS only purpose and I'll take care about this info.

What I currently run as a small NAS which has about the performance/design you want:

Fujitsu motherboard (about 130 euros)
Intel G5400 (60 eurobucks)
2x 16gb ram (145 euro's)
1x Melanox connectx-3 (65 bucks)
1x LSI HBA (70 bucks)
1x good quality PSU 80 bucks
6x Toshiba HDD (lets ignore disks for now)

thats about 550 bucks excluding case or disks, for performance thats on-par with the FreeNAS mini E+.

Could you post at least the Part Numbers of the motherboard? Has it an IPMI? Without further info I can't tell anything about yout setup (which could be really good seeing the prices).

 

[ornias]

Could you post at least the Part Numbers of the motherboard? Has it an IPMI? Without further info I can't tell anything about yout setup (which could be really good seeing the prices).

Sorry, I didn't have the time, at the time, to look it up...

It was the Fujitsu D3643-H
Currently called (changed brand, same board) Kontron D3643-H
Note: This is a board focussed on power efficiency, so it does not have things like IPMI.

Full readout:

Intel Pentium Gold G5400 Boxed
- Fujitsu D3643-H
- Toshiba DT01ACA300, 3TB
- Dell H310 PERC (LSI 9211-8i)
- CONNECTX-3 EN (Dual SFP+ NIC)
- Supermicro CSE-822T-400LPB
- Noctua NH-L9i
- Supermicro PWS-027 2U 400W

(ram not listed due to me being lazy)

I'm able to write well over 250-300mbps with a tripple mirror setup (and do have some Jails and a pihole vm running).

 

[bytesontheroad]

Sorry, I didn't have the time, at the time, to look it up...

It was the Fujitsu D3643-H
Currently called (changed brand, same board) Kontron D3643-H
Note: This is a board focussed on power efficiency, so it does not have things like IPMI.

Full readout:

Intel Pentium Gold G5400 Boxed
- Fujitsu D3643-H
- Toshiba DT01ACA300, 3TB
- Dell H310 PERC (LSI 9211-8i)
- CONNECTX-3 EN (Dual SFP+ NIC)
- Supermicro CSE-822T-400LPB
- Noctua NH-L9i
- Supermicro PWS-027 2U 400W

(ram not listed due to me being lazy)

I'm able to write well over 250-300mbps with a tripple mirror setup (and do have some Jails and a pihole vm running).

Unluckily no IPMI, no go, I really need it. The motherboard, moreover, is Micro-ATX and not Mini-ITX and thus won't fit into a Node 304 case (or the other solution Supermicro SuperChassis 721TQ-250B/Ablecom CS-M50).

 

[ornias]

Unluckily no IPMI, no go, I really need it. The motherboard, moreover, is Micro-ATX and not Mini-ITX and thus won't fit into a Node 304 case (or the other solution Supermicro SuperChassis 721TQ-250B/Ablecom CS-M50).

I just told you my setup, which I refered to as an example of the powerlevel you where looking for.
It wasn't intended to be a "take this" kind of guide (thats also why I didn't refer exact part numbers".

But generally speaking "lots of ram, ECC, ITX, socketable CPU and many SATA slots" are not things that fit well together.

Anyway, to stay on topic:
I went over the requirements of your topic AGAIN, to give you a ready-to-rock
Your requirements where:
- FreeNAS (of course!)
- 3.5" disks
- silent
- 4 bays minimum
- IPMI support, if Supermicro is better because I would need to manage only one kind of IPMI interface since I already have one
- no need for Plex, VMs, containers, transcoding, etc
- don't preclude the chance to go with 10Gb/s in the future (one SFP+ port would be very good or at least a PCI Express solution as in the other system)
- cannot spend too much right now but I can delay some expenses to some months from now (placing 8 or 16 GB of RAM now and buying other next fall for example)

And your additional preferences where:
- As weak as possible cpu
- barely able to run any jails or VM's
- CPU in socket.

I hereby advice the "FreeNAS Mini E".
- Runs freenas
- It has 4 3,5"bays
- is quite silent, has IPMI on a supermicro board
- Is not really able to handle Plex, VM's or other jails well
- Includes a PCIE slot which you could plug a 10Gb/s card in the future
- Not too expensive (considering for example my diy setup without case)
- There are not much modern cpu's that are weaker than this one.

Only one downside:
- It has no Socket based CPU.

Sorry, but if you almost literally list the specs of the FreeNAS Mini E, are you that amazed people advice you... the FreeNAS Mini E?

 

[bytesontheroad]

I just told you my setup, which I refered to as an example of the powerlevel you where looking for.
It wasn't intended to be a "take this" kind of guide (thats also why I didn't refer exact part numbers".

I take everything all of you say as an advice from a buddy to a buddy. :) That's why I say thanks anyway, even if the advice does not fit my needs.

But generally speaking "lots of ram, ECC, ITX, socketable CPU and many SATA slots" are not things that fit well together.

Never said I want with no exceptions "socketable CPU" and "lots of RAM". :) Actually I said it was an option to go cheaper in the short run and to be able to upgrade afterwards.
Furthermore, all the ITX I found I like don't have socketable CPU.

And your additional preferences where:
- As weak as possible cpu
- barely able to run any jails or VM's
- CPU in socket.

Maybe I didn't express correctly at first but when I said "I don't need to go overpowered" I meant "if it's not needed by the operating system to provide reasonable performance let's go lower (also because it should be cheaper and should consume less power)", not "I definitely want to go underpowered". I hope I cleared my views.

I hereby advice the "FreeNAS Mini E".
- Runs freenas
- It has 4 3,5"bays
- is quite silent, has IPMI on a supermicro board
- Is not really able to handle Plex, VM's or other jails well
- Includes a PCIE slot which you could plug a 10Gb/s card in the future
- Not too expensive (considering for example my diy setup without case)
- There are not much modern cpu's that are weaker than this one.

Only one downside:
- It has no Socket based CPU.

Sorry, but if you almost literally list the specs of the FreeNAS Mini E, are you that amazed people advice you... the FreeNAS Mini E?

Do you know the more I don't find other solutions that fit together as good as the FreeNAS off-the-shelf solution the more I convince myself I have to go that direction? :D
If I can find it in Europe, obviously.