Home NAS Server Build: Suggestions

[ECC]

Hello,
I'm new to TrueNAS, so i wanted to share my current setup plan with you:
Usecase:

• Main Storage (all SATA) for 5x 8TB and 3x 5TB. Access via SMB, 1-2 User. Atm only via GBit LAN
• use of ECC
• No 24/7 Runtime, scheduled runtime / Access with WOL (Powerconsumption)
• optional: Upgrade to 10GBit (when price is dropping)
• enough Power for future projects (1-2VMs, but nothing to crazy)
• Storage: Pool 1: 5x8TB RaidZ2, Pool 2: 3x5TB RaidZ1
• Boot Pool: 2x 120 GB SSD SATA Mirror
• Backup: 2x14TB USB 3.0 -> backup strategy not decided yet...

After long research, I narrowed it down to the following setup:

• Intel Core i3-8100, boxed
• Fujitsu D3644-B
• be quiet! Pure Power 11 CM 400W ATX
• MZHOU PCIe SATA 6 Port, PCIe to SATA Marvell 88SE9215 (Mainboard only has 6xSATA Ports)

not decided yet:
RAM:

• 1x Kingston Server Premier DIMM 32GB, DDR4-3200, CL22-22-22, ECC (KSM32ED8/32ME) OR
• 2x Kingston Server Premier DIMM 16GB, DDR4-2666, CL19-19-19, ECC (KSM26ED8/16ME)

CASE:

• SilverStone Case Storage CS380 V2 OR
• Fractal Design Define R5 Black

Questions:

• good setup for my usecase? suggestions?
• RAM: what is the better option? Will TrueNAS profit from Dual Channel RAM? 32GB enough?
• Case (pro arguments):
  • Silverstone:
    • HotSwap feature (HDD status LED). Otherwise, if one drive fails, how do I know which drive to replace?
  • Fractal:
    • It looks like it has a better quality than the Silverstone case
    • Noise Damping
    • maybe better airflow?
• Power supply sufficient? Staggered Spin Up necessary / supported?
• MZHOU Sata PCIe Card Extension: Supported via TrueNAS? Known issues? Alternatives?

I hope you can help me with this, thank you!

 

[jayecin]

I think your power supply is way under sized for the amount of drives you are anticipating using. 10Gbit for 1-2 users seems excessive, do you also plan on adding 10Gbit nics to the end user computers as well? I would go with the 2 16GB sticks of ram, the timings are better and you will actually use DDR, with 1 stick you cant use DDR. Plus i dont think that CPU can even use 3200mhz ram.

 

[ECC]

I think your power supply is way under sized for the amount of drives you are anticipating using.

- Why should 400W be too small? The only worstcase scenario I can imagine is the simultanious spin up of all HDDs. I calculated ~30W for each drive, which would be around 300W, (8 internal, 2 external). Then I have got 100W spare for CPU etc. CPU power usage at boot should be that much (CPU TDP = 65W). After HDD spin up, power consumption should be much lower (~6 Watt/HDD)
-> Test with 15 drives, max power consumption was about 400W https://www.45drives.com/wiki/index.php?title=Start_up_Power_Draw

10Gbit for 1-2 users seems excessive, do you also plan on adding 10Gbit nics to the end user computers as well?

This is just optional, but yes. When i get a good deal, I would start with 2 devices (NAS & Main PC). Backups can take many hours, but atm this is not a good reason to spend a lot of money for 10GBit. Therefore I'll start with 1Gbit

I would go with the 2 16GB sticks of ram, the timings are better and you will actually use DDR, with 1 stick you cant use DDR. Plus i dont think that CPU can even use 3200mhz ram.

Are there any benchmarks with truenas that can prove this?

Any other comments on my questions?

 

[jgreco]

- Why should 400W be too small? The only worstcase scenario I can imagine is the simultanious spin up of all HDDs. I calculated ~30W for each drive, which would be around 300W, (8 internal, 2 external). Then I have got 100W spare for CPU etc. CPU power usage at boot should be that much (CPU TDP = 65W). After HDD spin up, power consumption should be much lower (~6 Watt/HDD)
-> Test with 15 drives, max power consumption was about 400W https://www.45drives.com/wiki/index.php?title=Start_up_Power_Draw

Because the 45drives chassis are built to do staggered spinup.

We have an excellent Proper Power Supply Sizing Guide here that shows you how to calculate this correctly. I do this stuff professionally, and it explains the various ins and outs.

 

[HoneyBadger]

Any other comments on my questions?

The Fujitsu motherboard you've selected doesn't appear to have support for 32GB DIMMs. If it does, that's great - and I would suggest going with the single 32GB one as it leaves you with 3 slots free. ZFS cares much more about RAM quantity vs "quality" (in terms of premature optimizations around timing/latency)

MZHOU Sata PCIe Card Extension: Supported via TrueNAS? Known issues? Alternatives?

When it comes to HBAs and extra drives, "Just buy LSI" - use the SAS2008 if you have no designs on SSDs, or the SAS2308. Rebranded OEM cards are fine for this too.

 

[ECC]

Sorry for my long absence. Meanwhile, I got an offer for

- Supermicro X8DTH
- Xeon E5540
- 16GB DDR 3 Ram
- 700 W 80 Plus Silver ATX PSU

Would this do the trick? I thought it would be better to go with used HW for a better price
The board has plenty of pcie slots for further upgrades (Sata, 10G) and can store RDIMMs with up to 96GB RAM (single CPU)

However, I'm a little bit concerned about power consumption. What would you expect with this HW in idle?

 

[jgreco]

Be warned, the Nehalem and earlier generation Xeons typically run very hot and power hungry, compared to more recent stuff, Sandy Bridge and newer.

 

[ECC]

Be warned, the Nehalem and earlier generation Xeons typically run very hot and power hungry, compared to more recent stuff, Sandy Bridge and newer.

sorry, but I'm not an expert in CPU generations and specific datasheets. Should I keep that MB and switch the cpu to a newer model or is that MB too old, so it would be recommend for a newer mb & cpu? What is the "best for the buck"?

 

[HoneyBadger]

sorry, but I'm not an expert in CPU generations and specific datasheets. Should I keep that MB and switch the cpu to a newer model or is that MB too old, so it would be recommend for a newer mb & cpu? What is the "best for the buck"?

He means the Xeon 5500/5600 series. They're cheap, sure, but if you pay a lot for electricity you may end up seeing a bump in your electric bill (as well as additional HVAC costs in the summer) - if you're not responsible for power, or it's cheap, that may not matter to you.

There were pretty major efficiency gains in Sandy Bridge (Supermicro X9 series, first-generation Xeon E-series chips) and another big win for idle power consumption with Haswell (Supermicro X10, Xeon v3) - try to get to those two steps if you can, but bear in mind they're more expensive.

 

[ECC]

ok, I reconsidered my HW setup to the following:
- Supermicro X11SSM
- i3 7100T
- RAM ???

However, the information about ECC-Support for the i3-71XX are contradictory: Officialy it is supported but users claim that it is not. Is there some solid information?

For the RAM: I'm confused about the compatibility (and of course ECC support, yeah). Am I right that if I use UDIMM DDR4 ECC models (max 16GB per RAM), I will have ECC support? singel/double channel is not that important with freenas? For example, this RAM should be supported?

Thank you for all your time, I know i ask a lot of noob questions

 

[Inxsible]

Well, I had my doubts with Truenas/ Freenas and unfortunately they are true... it's all depending from the community support. And nobody cares about neebies that need help with their questions and builds. Seems that I have to go with a supported OS.
That's sad, I really liked the idea about TrueNAS...

Not really sure what to make of this post.

The forums is full of helpful people and many have tried to help you out.

Sorry for my long absence. Meanwhile, I got an offer for

So you can go AWOL for a long time -- but if the people responding to you don't answer immediately then that is somehow the community's fault??


What exactly are you looking for?

 

[Inxsible]

For the RAM: I'm confused about the compatibility (and of course ECC support, yeah). Am I right that if I use UDIMM DDR4 ECC models (max 16GB per RAM), I will have ECC support?

No -- Just by using ECC RAM, you don't get ECC support. Your motherboard, CPU AND RAM -- all three need to support ECC.

 

[Inxsible]

For example, this RAM should be supported?

Whether a particular RAM Module is supported or not, depends more on your hardware -- like motherboard, CPU. The voltage that your MB and CPU use for RAM etc. FreeNAS/TrueNAS doesn't care what model # your RAM module is -- as long as your system POSTs.

 

[Inxsible]

ok, I reconsidered my HW setup to the following:
- Supermicro X11SSM
- i3 7100T
- RAM ???

Since you are wildly swinging between an X8 gen and X11 gen -- my suggestion would be to get a X9 or X10 based board for the following 2 reasons.

1. The power consumption of X9/X10 is much better than the X8 gen architecture -- since you are so concerned about power consumption
2. Use a Pentium processor to get more power consumption benefits rather than looking at Xeons etc.

For eg. I had a Pentium G3240 (LGA 1151) on a Tyan S5533 -- which is the same socket as the Supermicro X10 generation. Get a X10SLM-F + Pentium G3240

You haven't really described what you want to use the NAS for -- so assuming that you don't want to transcode multiple streams from Plex/Emby, a Pentium should be plenty sufficient. I was running 4 jails with Emby, Couchpotato, Transmission and Git server.

 

[ECC]

No -- Just by using ECC RAM, you don't get ECC support. Your motherboard, CPU AND RAM -- all three need to support ECC.

Of course all 3 components need to support ECC. You dropped the context! I told you my CPU and Motherboard:
- Supermicro X11SSM
- i3 7100T
The question was, if I use Supermicro X11SSM + i3 7100T + UDIMM DDR4 ECC RAM, will i have ECC Support?

Since you are wildly swinging between an X8 gen and X11 gen

Due to concerns from the others

You haven't really described what you want to use the NAS for -- so assuming that you don't want to transcode multiple streams from Plex/Emby, a Pentium should be plenty sufficient. I was running 4 jails with Emby, Couchpotato, Transmission and Git server.

Just read my first post :) I think I described it very detailed

Usecase:

Main Storage (all SATA) for 5x 8TB and 3x 5TB. Access via SMB, 1-2 User. Atm only via GBit LAN
use of ECC
No 24/7 Runtime, scheduled runtime / Access with WOL (Powerconsumption)
optional: Upgrade to 10GBit (when price is dropping)
enough Power for future projects (1-2VMs, but nothing to crazy)
Storage: Pool 1: 5x8TB RaidZ2, Pool 2: 3x5TB RaidZ1
Boot Pool: 2x 120 GB SSD SATA Mirror
Backup: 2x14TB USB 3.0 -> backup strategy not decided yet...

What is still open:

However, the information about ECC-Support for the i3-71XX are contradictory: Officialy it is supported but users claim that it is not. Is there some solid information?

I also want to add a further question: Who can I test, if ECC really works? It seems like this is more a believe question...

 

[Patrick M. Hausen]

According to Intel Specs this CPU supports ECC. Supermicro has (in my opinion) really well maintained mainboard documentation. You should find a list of supported memory modules and CPUs on their website - for every single mainboard.

How do you think the community could give you a qualified statement about an arbitrary mainboard/CPU/memory combination? That's the job of your supplier! Make the person selling you the system take care of working/non-working combinations.

 

[Inxsible]

The question was, if I use Supermicro X11SSM + i3 7100T + UDIMM DDR4 ECC RAM, will i have ECC Support?

Yes, that is obvious that it will. Each one of those support ECC -- so all three together will support ECC.

Due to concerns from the others

Stop being concerned about the others -- decide what you want to do with the build and where your budget lies. Those two things will probably dictate most of where this eventually ends up.

Just read my first post :) I think I described it very detailed

Yes and so read my post about the recommendation -- Pentium G3240 with X10SLM-F. Does everything you need. It can even run 1 or 2 VMs as long as you don't need hardware passthrough. This is what I meant by details -- you didn't mention what kind of VMs you had in mind. Will they need hardware passthrough - if so the Pentium won't work since it does not support VT-d. Then you might have to bump it up to a Xeon E3 1220 v3. Do you need HyperThreading too? well then you might need to bump it up even further to Xeon E3 1240 v3 and so on.

Make up your decisions as to what you want and there will be options available.

I also want to add a further question: Who can I test, if ECC really works? It seems like this is more a believe question...

If you don't feel like trusting the source (Intel Ark) then it's up to you and I know the thread you are referring to. Choose another processor and move on or figure out if you can perform the testing yourself or push others who can in that general direction.

 

[ECC]

You should find a list of supported memory modules and CPUs on their website - for every single mainboard.

Unfortunately, I only found one 16GB 2666 Memory on Supermicro's website that is out of stock (MEM-DR416L-CV02-EU26)
However, my desired Kingston KSM26ED8/16ME 16GB seems to work with the X11SSM Mainboard, according to Kingston Homepage.

According to Intel Specs this CPU supports ECC.
How do you think the community could give you a qualified statement about an arbitrary mainboard/CPU/memory combination? That's the job of your supplier! Make the person selling you the system take care of working/non-working combinations.

That's the problem! As I said:

However, the information about ECC-Support for the i3-71XX are contradictory: Officialy it is supported but users claim that it is not. Is there some solid information?

Who should I believe? In the end, it is not supported and all the research was a wasted time & money.
As I mentioned, I bought (mostly) used gear. Therefore, returning HW due to wrong information (ECC Support etc) is not possible. I hoped that users who own the 7100T can tell me, whether ECC works with their HW config or not.
Due to this conflict, I bought a "backup" CPU, the i3-6100. If the 7100T should not be able to work with ECC, I hope I just can swap the CPU. I think that shouldn't be a problem with an existing freenas setup?

Stop being concerned about the others -- decide what you want to do with the build and where your budget lies

That is easier said then done... As I want to get the "best for the buck", I want to use mostly used gear. Especially Supermicro Motherboards can be very expensive, that's why I wanted to buy them used. Unfortunately, that means that I get (very) old HW, which may have critical disadvantages, like extreme power consumption or bottlenecks.
I know what I want, and that is mainly NAS functionality. But I want to have a little performance reserve (e.g. 10G Network,...)

Do you need HyperThreading too? well then you might need to bump it up even further to Xeon E3 1240 v3 and so on.

I don't know, this is my first freenas server. Intel says that the i3-6100 and the i3-7100T should support it. The reason for going with freenas was data integrety and performance boost, compared to my old qnap ts212p nas.

Make up your decisions as to what you want and there will be options available.

If you don't feel like trusting the source (Intel Ark) then it's up to you and I know the thread you are referring to. Choose another processor and move on or figure out if you can perform the testing yourself or push others who can in that general direction.

Well, meanwhile I have my setup (I bought these components):

• Supermicro X11SSM
• Intel i3-7100T (Backup i3-6100)
• Xilence I402 CPU Cooler
• 2x Kingston Server Premier DIMM 16GB, DDR4-2666, CL19-19-19, ECC (KSM26ED8/16ME)
• PSU AC BEL R88POWER 700W ATX12V 80PLUS SILVER
• MZHOU PCIe 2.0 x 1 to SATA III 4-Port- Marvell-Chipset (for boot drives)

I read a little about ECC testing, but it seemed like it can destroy the RAM doing this procedure. Maybe you can tell me, which method you prefere or which method is the most easy approach. Thank you.

 

[Patrick M. Hausen]

As I mentioned, I bought (mostly) used gear. Therefore, returning HW due to wrong information (ECC Support etc) is not possible. I hoped that users who own the 7100T can tell me, whether ECC works with their HW config or not.

Not me in this case. I only run Xeons and Atoms. And you probably won't find a system sold by iX with your CPU, either.

 

[Inxsible]

Moderator Note: [Please do not engage in argumentative and insulting behavior. Your message has been altered to follow our rules. Thanks!]

Unfortunately, I only found one 16GB 2666 Memory on Supermicro's website that is out of stock (MEM-DR416L-CV02-EU26)
However, my desired Kingston KSM26ED8/16ME 16GB seems to work with the X11SSM Mainboard, according to Kingston Homepage.

The verified lists by the board manufacturers are only an indication of which memory modules they have tested with. It's not an exhaustive list in any way. If your modules work, great !

Who should I believe?

Manufacturer specifics tend to be very trustworthy.

On a similar note, tell me do you believe that the processor you bought i3-7100T

1. is built on the 14nm architecture?
2. that it has a max TDP of 25W
3. that it has a max base freq of 3.4Ghz?
4. that it has a max bus speed of 8GT/s?
5. etc etc etc?

Some of these can be easily tested with the utiliies that are available. Some cannot without investing a whole lot of time, money and effort. There are a million things that go into building a chip. Testing those would require some effort too right? If you are willing to believe Intel that the i3-7100T has a bunch of features -- why is it a problem believing that it supports ECC -- when Intel is saying that?

However if you can prove that Intel is wrong then go ahead and sue them for all the money in the world !!!

Unfortunately, that means that I get (very) old HW, which may have critical disadvantages, like extreme power consumption or bottlenecks.

I think you are over-inflating the power-consumption issue of the old hardware. The old hardware is not going to run at peak TDP all the time. If you actually look at the difference between a X9 based CPU and the X11 CPU, the TDP difference will not be huge and it will take you years to cover up the additional upfront cost that you would pay for the X11 based hardware.

But anyway... you have already purchased the hardware -- so we are past that point.

MZHOU PCIe 2.0 x 1 to SATA III 4-Port- Marvell-Chipset (for boot drives)

A LSI based HBA would have been better !