Dell T3500 drive capacity limit

[OptimalDuck]

I recently got my hands on a Dell T3500 and I’ve been poking around and learning a ton. I’ve been planning purchasing some drives and using it for TrueNAS but tonight I noticed that product sheet lists 8TB as the combined total of the drives it is compatible with.

Product Sheet

I’ve seen this model talked about around the forums as one that people have used for TrueNAS. Is there a way around this, or are people sticking to only 8TB of drives when they us it?

 

[rvassar]

The T3500 is kind of the "tank" of 2012 PC's... I'm actually typing this on one even now in 2022... I think I paid $80 for it...

Models earlier had a 2Tb drive limit, which I'm not sure applies to the T3500, but that's the bit you need to research. The SATA I/II capacity limit.

 

[speedtriple]

Not shure about any TB limitation on SATA, I do not think so. That was an old Windows limit(?)
Previously I used the T3500 for Windows Server 2016 with 2x4TB mounted on SATA, and 2x SSD on SATA for the system = more than 8TB without any issues.

Using it today for ESXi with a TrueNAS installation.
I have 6x4TB=24TB for the storage on a HBA-card (LSI SAS9220-8i). And 3x SSD on SATA for the system/ESXi.
HBA-card is necessary since running TrueNAS hypervised.
If running TrueNAS direct, you can use SATA. But I think using HBA-card is the most safe for TrueNAS also for a direct TrueNAS installation.

 

[jgreco]

TB limitation on SATA, I do not think so. That was an old Windows limit(?)

Don't be silly, Windows doesn't have such a limit.

The 2.2TB limit comes from the LSI 3Gbps 32-bit controller limit, present in controllers such as the PERC SAS 6/iR controller card.

I’ve seen this model talked about around the forums as one that people have used for TrueNAS. Is there a way around this, or are people sticking to only 8TB of drives when they us it?

Just to be clear, there is no "only 8TB of drives" limit. Your drives are limited to 2TB each. Presumably the unit has four direct-wired bays, and 4 * 2 = 8, which is where the "8TB of drives" comes from. You cannot stick in 2 * 4TB or 1 * 8TB HDD in and expect it to work. You can hook up more than 4 drives using an SAS expander, unless they've lobotomized the config on the 6/iR to a 4 drive limit.

You may be able to replace the controller with something like a PERC H200 or PERC H310. If so, make sure it is crossflashed to IT mode.

 

[speedtriple]

Don't be silly, Windows doesn't have such a limit.

The 2.2TB limit comes from the LSI 3Gbps 32-bit controller limit, present in controllers such as the PERC SAS 6/iR controller card.



Just to be clear, there is no "only 8TB of drives" limit. Your drives are limited to 2TB each. Presumably the unit has four direct-wired bays, and 4 * 2 = 8, which is where the "8TB of drives" comes from. You cannot stick in 2 * 4TB or 1 * 8TB HDD in and expect it to work. You can hook up more than 4 drives using an SAS expander, unless they've lobotomized the config on the 6/iR to a 4 drive limit.

You may be able to replace the controller with something like a PERC H200 or PERC H310. If so, make sure it is crossflashed to IT mode.

That is correct. As I wrote it was an "old" limit, that means in current windows installations there is no limit. I do forget how old, maybe 8-10 years ago, but then there was a 2TB limit, with a workaround for old systems affected - and for some a BIOS update - to attach 3-4TB.

Windows support for hard disks exceeding 2 TB - Windows Server

Discusses the manner in which Windows supports hard disks that have a storage capacity of more than 2 TB. Explains how to initialize and partition disks to maximize space usage.

docs.microsoft.com

I do run a Dell T3500.... As I wrote, there have been no problems attatching SATA drives above 2TB. You can stick in 4TB+ and expect it to work.

The T3500 have only 5 SATA III ports, of which 2 are prewired for 2 HDD. With addon cage from i.e. startech or drive cage from Dell instead of DVD-drive you can fit 4 more HDD + some small SSD's laying around. But you then will need a SATA-card. Or Perc/LSI-card with breakout-cables, which is optimal. LSI-card will have cables for 8xHDD - then there will be a power-problem to get power from PSU and space for all these inside the T3500.

Dell Precision T3500 Hard Drive Modification

I have a table on my webpage about various types of storage devices, and links to where you can buy them.https://he-1000-1975.com/hard-drives-and-other-stora...

www.youtube.com

You do not have do replace any LSI controller for the T3500 to work.
If LSI-card, you are correct - must be flashed in IT mode 9211-8i, which I have done. Lots of guides for this on this forum. But this is necessary only for hypervised installations of TrueNAS. And you can find a preflashed card on eBay.

It is not required with any LSI-card in T3500 if TrueNAS is the bare metal system on the T3500 - but I do believe it still is an advantage for a stable TrueNAS on any system(?)

 

[jgreco]

That is correct. As I wrote it was an "old" limit, that means in current windows installations there is no limit. I do forget how old, maybe 8-10 years ago, but then there was a 2TB limit, with a workaround for old systems affected - and for some a BIOS update - to attach 3-4TB.

No, the issue you're thinking of is at BIOS+MBR partitioned systems cannot make use of larger disks than 2.2T due to 32-bit LBA addressing issues. This is not an inherent limitation; the article you point at literally describes how to use GPT instead.

You've essentially said "my Windows box is limited to 640KB", I responded with "no it isn't", and you've replied with "well this old way of doing things is limited" while pointing to a DOS command prompt on your Windows box. So there's a little bit of truth in there somewhere, but it isn't actually a relevant limit, because the thing we're discussing is whether or not the hardware is capable of running TrueNAS.

The SAS 6/iR typically included with Dell workstations of that era is NOT able to address more than 2.2TB. This is an etched-in-silicon limit, and is relevant to TrueNAS.

The Windows "limit" you mention is only meaningful for Windows when installed using BIOS+MBR. However, since you could boot from a 2TB BIOS+MBR disk, and then add a 10TB GPT-partitioned disk to the system for your data, this isn't even a hard limit for Windows -- just for its boot disk, and even then, only if your system doesn't support GPT. You need to plug that second drive into a controller that doesn't have an etched-in-silicon limit, of course. Whether or not this Window is broken is not particularly relevant to the poster's question, in any case.

The relevant limit is the etched-in-silicon 1068 controller 32-bit LBA restriction. The only way to avoid that is to use something else, whether that be AHCI SATA, PERC H200/H310, etc.

 

[speedtriple]

No, the issue you're thinking of is at BIOS+MBR partitioned systems cannot make use of larger disks than 2.2T due to 32-bit LBA addressing issues. This is not an inherent limitation; the article you point at literally describes how to use GPT instead.

You've essentially said "my Windows box is limited to 640KB", I responded with "no it isn't", and you've replied with "well this old way of doing things is limited" while pointing to a DOS command prompt on your Windows box. So there's a little bit of truth in there somewhere, but it isn't actually a relevant limit, because the thing we're discussing is whether or not the hardware is capable of running TrueNAS.

The SAS 6/iR typically included with Dell workstations of that era is NOT able to address more than 2.2TB. This is an etched-in-silicon limit, and is relevant to TrueNAS.

The Windows "limit" you mention is only meaningful for Windows when installed using BIOS+MBR. However, since you could boot from a 2TB BIOS+MBR disk, and then add a 10TB GPT-partitioned disk to the system for your data, this isn't even a hard limit for Windows -- just for its boot disk, and even then, only if your system doesn't support GPT. You need to plug that second drive into a controller that doesn't have an etched-in-silicon limit, of course. Whether or not this Window is broken is not particularly relevant to the poster's question, in any case.

The relevant limit is the etched-in-silicon 1068 controller 32-bit LBA restriction. The only way to avoid that is to use something else, whether that be AHCI SATA, PERC H200/H310, etc.

There is no SAS/iR included with T3500. It was only made to function as a powerful workstation, with for that time, good PCI GPU-cards.

 

[speedtriple]

No, the issue you're thinking of is at BIOS+MBR partitioned systems cannot make use of larger disks than 2.2T due to 32-bit LBA addressing issues. This is not an inherent limitation; the article you point at literally describes how to use GPT instead.

You've essentially said "my Windows box is limited to 640KB", I responded with "no it isn't", and you've replied with "well this old way of doing things is limited" while pointing to a DOS command prompt on your Windows box. So there's a little bit of truth in there somewhere, but it isn't actually a relevant limit, because the thing we're discussing is whether or not the hardware is capable of running TrueNAS.

The SAS 6/iR typically included with Dell workstations of that era is NOT able to address more than 2.2TB. This is an etched-in-silicon limit, and is relevant to TrueNAS.

The Windows "limit" you mention is only meaningful for Windows when installed using BIOS+MBR. However, since you could boot from a 2TB BIOS+MBR disk, and then add a 10TB GPT-partitioned disk to the system for your data, this isn't even a hard limit for Windows -- just for its boot disk, and even then, only if your system doesn't support GPT. You need to plug that second drive into a controller that doesn't have an etched-in-silicon limit, of course. Whether or not this Window is broken is not particularly relevant to the poster's question, in any case.

The relevant limit is the etched-in-silicon 1068 controller 32-bit LBA restriction. The only way to avoid that is to use something else, whether that be AHCI SATA, PERC H200/H310, etc.

I think OP i asking due to the original spec which states 2TB maximum on SATA3-ports:

https://i.dell.com/sites/csdocuments/Shared-Content_data-Sheets_Documents/en/Dell-Precision-T3500-Spec-Sheet.pdf

I can confirm that 4TB is no problem connecting to SATA3-ports today, and I assume 8-16TB will work also on each SATA-port today.

Make sure to update BIOS to latest.

 

[rvassar]

On the 2Tb limit, I think I was thinking of an even earlier system I had kicking around, a Dell SC1430. Sorry for the misdirect.

Make sure to update BIOS to latest.

Indeed... Also keep in mind, even with the latest kernel, this generation of Xeon's did not receive the Spectre / Meltdown microcode fixes. Many kernels have mitigation's built in, and I'm sure iX has been diligent in following the guidance. But I decided to simply turn off hyper-threading.

 

[jgreco]

There is no SAS/iR included with T3500. It was only made to function as a powerful workstation, with for that time, good PCI GPU-cards.

Oh fer chrissakes it's right there in the spec sheet.

https://i.dell.com/sites/doccontent/shared-content/data-sheets/en/Documents/Dell-Precision-T3500-Spec-Sheet.pdf

For SAS drive configurations, which would have been heavily pushed for "workstation" class machines, the SAS 6/iR is required, because the onboard ports are only SATA. Dell would have pushed that heavily, especially for the kinds of businesses likely to be buying the T3500.

 

[speedtriple]

On the 2Tb limit, I think I was thinking of an even earlier system I had kicking around, a Dell SC1430. Sorry for the misdirect.



Indeed... Also keep in mind, even with the latest kernel, this generation of Xeon's did not receive the Spectre / Meltdown microcode fixes. Many kernels have mitigation's built in, and I'm sure iX has been diligent in following the guidance. But I decided to simply turn off hyper-threading.

Good catch, never thought about that..

I see the Dell T3500 is safe for Meltdown, but not Spectre. Latest BIOS A17 is from 2013.

T3500 No new BIOS for Spectre Vulnerability | DELL Technologies

Due to the recent vulnerabilities, both Intel and Microsoft ( For Windows ) has released updated OS's for protection again them. Moreover, BIOS updates by companies like Dell and other motherboard ...

www.dell.com

Spectre can be made safe with software, have not checked ESXi/TrueNAS with regard to that.

 

[speedtriple]

Oh fer chrissakes it's right there in the spec sheet.

https://i.dell.com/sites/doccontent/shared-content/data-sheets/en/Documents/Dell-Precision-T3500-Spec-Sheet.pdf

For SAS drive configurations, which would have been heavily pushed for "workstation" class machines, the SAS 6/iR is required, because the onboard ports are only SATA. Dell would have pushed that heavily, especially for the kinds of businesses likely to be buying the T3500.

Tnx, you are correct. I am not familiar with SAS-drives, never used any, so it is totally out of my knowledge.

The OP is however not asking about SAS/iR., but if there is a 2TB limit on SATA3-drives, or a 8TB total limit for the pool of SATA3-drives which the spec says there is...so I can understand OP's question.

As mentioned, I have used this Dell T3500 with 4TB SATA-drives in the SATA3-ports with no issues - previously directly running Windows Server 2012/2016 on only SATA3-HDD's. And ESXi/TrueNAS today with HBA-LSI-card for the storage pool. SATA3-for the ESXi VM's.

I can also confirm that 48GB ECC Ram does work using the Xeon X5675, even if the original spec says max 24GB.

 

[jgreco]

The OP is however not asking about SAS/iR., but if there is a 2TB limit on SATA3-drives, or a 8TB total limit for the pool of SATA3-drives which the spec says there is...so I can understand OP's question.

I don't recall a reference to SATA3 drives. Even so, as I said above in my first answer,

The 2.2TB limit comes from the LSI 3Gbps 32-bit controller limit, present in controllers such as the PERC SAS 6/iR controller card.

which explains the only thing that should be limiting the drive size in this system when running FreeNAS/TrueNAS. I feel like that was correct. It would certainly apply to SATA3 drives attached to an LSI1068 controller as well as SAS drives, so it bears mentioning in an unambiguous manner.

The whole Windows thing seems to be an irrelevancy, unless you're planning to run Windows on it, which isn't topical to this forum.

So, yes, there may be a 2TB (effective, 'cause 2.2TB drives don't really exist) on both SATA3 and SAS drives, if they are connected to a SAS 6/iR controller, often found in these units. If you do not have a SAS 6/iR, Dell has still capped the spec sheet at 2TB, because they probably did not want to write out this fiddly explanation, and because SATA 2TB drives were about the largest available when this workstation was manufactured. However, you should be able to use larger-than-2TB SATA drives on the workstation's internal SATA ports. This will work even for Windows, although you need to use GPT in order for that to be true.

What you need to do is to check to see if you have a PERC SAS 6/iR controller in the machine. This imposes a 2TB drive size limit. For everything.

(eyeroll) oh wait my first message basically said that.

 

[speedtriple]

I don't recall a reference to SATA3 drives. Even so, as I said above in my first answer,



which explains the only thing that should be limiting the drive size in this system when running FreeNAS/TrueNAS. I feel like that was correct. It would certainly apply to SATA3 drives attached to an LSI1068 controller as well as SAS drives, so it bears mentioning in an unambiguous manner.

The whole Windows thing seems to be an irrelevancy, unless you're planning to run Windows on it, which isn't topical to this forum.

So, yes, there may be a 2TB (effective, 'cause 2.2TB drives don't really exist) on both SATA3 and SAS drives, if they are connected to a SAS 6/iR controller, often found in these units. If you do not have a SAS 6/iR, Dell has still capped the spec sheet at 2TB, because they probably did not want to write out this fiddly explanation, and because SATA 2TB drives were about the largest available when this workstation was manufactured. However, you should be able to use larger-than-2TB SATA drives on the workstation's internal SATA ports. This will work even for Windows, although you need to use GPT in order for that to be true.

What you need to do is to check to see if you have a PERC SAS 6/iR controller in the machine. This imposes a 2TB drive size limit. For everything.

(eyeroll) oh wait my first message basically said that.

The SATA3 is my fault. I meant SATA2 since T3500 only have SATA II with 3 GB/s (thats where the "3" came from).
I should have written "SATA" since it is irrelevant anyhow. The HDD's I have connected has all been SATA III with 6 GB/s.

I have only tested the internal SATA-ports with 4TB drives using Windows.
My hypervised ESXi/TrueNAS are using HBA-LSI-card for the all six 4TB HDD's. The SATA SSD's connected today are only 250/500 gb.

So if you say the Dell T3500 with a bare metal TrueNAS only supports 2.2TB in the internal SATA-ports, I assume you are right.

 

[rvassar]

So if you say the Dell T3500 with a bare metal TrueNAS only supports 2.2TB in the internal SATA-ports, I assume you are right.

I don't believe this is the case.

Q from your sig: How did you stuff 48Gb in a T3500? The 8Gb sticks are supposedly not supported, but I haven't tried it.

 

[speedtriple]

I don't believe this is the case.

Q from your sig: How did you stuff 48Gb in a T3500? The 8Gb sticks are supposedly not supported, but I haven't tried it.

With regard to ram, I found one internet-forum-thread somewhere with someone who had tried 48gb with sucess on T3500, so I took a chance and ordered a 6x8gb ECC from eBay, not cheap...but it works.

As I understand, as long as the cpu supports it, it should work. X5675 supports up to 288gb ram.
And the 6x8gb i got just works in the T3500, even if Dell says max 24gb. At the time the T3500 was released maybe 24gb was "extreme"(?)

 

[speedtriple]

I don't believe this is the case.

Q from your sig: How did you stuff 48Gb in a T3500? The 8Gb sticks are supposedly not supported, but I haven't tried it.

I am using these: Samsung 48GB 6x8GB DDR3 1600MHz PC3-12800E 2RX8 240pin ECC Server Unbuffered Ram.

For info: T3500 and ram, the X58 chipset does not accept registered ram in the T3500, so the T3500 will never accept REG RAM, so make sure it is unbuffered.

 

[OptimalDuck]

I could have been more clear in my question. My plan is to use SATA drives. Either 4 tb or 6 tb (haven’t decided yet). The only pci cards in the computer I have are a video card (which I plan on removing) and a network card. If I’m following everything correctly it sounds like this might work with the sata ports that are on the motherboard?

 

[rvassar]

I am using these: Samsung 48GB 6x8GB DDR3 1600MHz PC3-12800E 2RX8 240pin ECC Server Unbuffered Ram.

Interesting. I never tried it. My T3500 is really finicky about even 4Gb sticks, so I found a set that worked and stopped poking at it. I run the six-core X5670, which is almost identical to yours.

For info: T3500 and ram, the X58 chipset does not accept registered ram in the T3500, so the T3500 will never accept REG RAM.

Yes, that I knew. The only way you're getting to 288mb in that era is to have the register to control the SI / electrical fanout, etc... Support for those were available in the T5500 & T7500 but finding those used at reasonable prices is a bit of a snipe hunt. I've actually been looking at the follow-on T36XX's.

 

[speedtriple]

I could have been more clear in my question. My plan is to use SATA drives. Either 4 tb or 6 tb (haven’t decided yet). The only pci cards in the computer I have are a video card (which I plan on removing) and a network card. If I’m following everything correctly it sounds like this might work with the sata ports that are on the motherboard?

You where crystal clear in your post #1.

It will work.

First FreeNAS Server

I am currently working on setting up a freenas server for the files of everyone in my household, which mostly consists of my video files, family photos and videos, and documents. In the future I intend to build a freenas system with newer hardware but for now I intend to use an existing system...

www.truenas.com

Have not tested so I cannot confirm what did work above, and as you can see there are other opinions in this thread.