Dell C2100 build

[BetYourBottom]

I'm working on locking in a build now. So if I could get some opinions on it that'd be great.

• Chassis - http://www.ebay.com/itm/282259669317
  
• CPUs - http://www.ebay.com/itm/182341599651 or I might go with these http://www.ebay.com/itm/182051754276
• RAM - http://www.ebay.com/itm/112125426802
• Trays - http://www.ebay.com/itm/262491662245 + 2 x http://www.ebay.com/itm/311520442585
• Raid/HBA - is slightly TBD, I might go with a 9211-8i or an H200 depending on price and availability

The chassis is what I've focused the most on because there are so many levels between barebones and fully stocked. Some details about this one is that I'm almost 100% sure it has the SFF-8484 x 3 backplane. I'm not sure if that would be an issue, since that should make the backplane 1:1, I don't see that limiting speeds at all. It comes with a SAS 6/ir. I heard some mention of a 2TB limit but I don't think this should be affected by that.

All-in-all, I'm predicting it to cost around $250 without harddrives to get myself something basic. Probably closer to $300-$325 to get a better raid card and the proper cables.

I'm planning on using this to host my media files to my devices, centralize my computer backups, host a file syncing server, auto-backup to the cloud and possibly a couple small game servers for my friends and I, like Minecraft.

EDIT: Is it possible to buy replacement spacer pins for items that require them?

 

[Spearfoot]

I'm working on locking in a build now. So if I could get some opinions on it that'd be great.

• Chassis - http://www.ebay.com/itm/282259669317
  
• CPUs - http://www.ebay.com/itm/182341599651 or I might go with these http://www.ebay.com/itm/182051754276
• RAM - http://www.ebay.com/itm/112125426802
• Trays - http://www.ebay.com/itm/262491662245 + 2 x http://www.ebay.com/itm/311520442585
• Raid/HBA - is slightly TBD, I might go with a 9211-8i or an H200 depending on price and availability

The chassis is what I've focused the most on because there are so many levels between barebones and fully stocked. Some details about this one is that I'm almost 100% sure it has the SFF-8484 x 3 backplane. I'm not sure if that would be an issue, since that should make the backplane 1:1, I don't see that limiting speeds at all. It comes with a SAS 6/ir. I heard some mention of a 2TB limit but I don't think this should be affected by that.

All-in-all, I'm predicting it to cost around $250 without harddrives to get myself something basic. Probably closer to $300-$325 to get a better raid card and the proper cables.

I'm planning on using this to host my media files to my devices, centralize my computer backups, host a file syncing server, auto-backup to the cloud and possibly a couple small game servers for my friends and I, like Minecraft.

EDIT: Is it possible to buy replacement spacer pins for items that require them?

@BetYourBottom, this post is off-topic for this thread... why don't you re-post it in the Will it FreeNAS? - FreeNAS Build Discussion forum?

Also, a lot of the member here are lazy and cantankerous, and therefore it's unlikely they'll click through your links to find out what devices you're actually proposing... so you're more likely to get a response if you included that information in your post. :)

 

[BetYourBottom]

I didn't think my comment would be entirely off topic because I was trying to discuss the older backplane that is warned against in the main post. I was also trying to get more information on the weird 2TB limit that was also mentioned.

However, I understand that slapping my build in there and talking so much about it makes the comment as a whole offtopic. I'm glad it got moved to the right place.

I do hope to get some eyes on it to let me know if it'll work.

 

[Chris Moore]

I didn't think my comment would be entirely off topic because I was trying to discuss the older backplane that is warned against in the main post. I was also trying to get more information on the weird 2TB limit that was also mentioned.

I will say this, you might save some money buying a system this old, but I want to let you know (based on my personal experience) what you are letting yourself in for. If you have not worked with these slim servers before (and many older servers suffer from this) they use small fans that run at a very high rate making them sound like jet engines getting ready for takeoff. They need all that air flow too, because that is what they were engineered for and the heat syncs are too small to work efectively with less air flow, so you can't slow them down or replace them without having overheating issues. SO, it is going to be lout, really loud.

Next, it is going to draw a lot of electricity because systems were not as eficient back then, the socket 1366 processors (the ones I had) used 140 watts where the processor I have now draws about 70 (half as much) and along with that power draw is the heat that they generate. Notice how that memory says HOT on the heat spreader? That is because it gets so very hot that if you touch it you can be burned. You will either have a very hot room or have to put extra power into cooling (air conditioning) or there will be problems. You just can't put it in the basement and let it be hot because the components will start to fail early.

Problems, problems; how about some solutions? I would highly recommend that you go with newer hardware even though it will cost you more money. Save up for it if you need to, you will be happier and it will make a noticeable difference in your power bill. It did for me anyhow. My old systems (two of them) made my whole house warmer which worked my air conditioning harder. Between the power the servers are not consuming and the power the AC is not consuming, I can see a difference in the bill every month. It is worth the extra up-front cost to save the monthly recurring costs.

Actual hardware:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/302153394771 - System Board - $99 + free shipping
http://www.ebay.com/itm/172315518085 - 4 U rack Chassis - $129 + $70 shipping (heavy)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/361575425948 - 32 GB ECC RAM - $245 + free shipping
http://www.ebay.com/itm/351884082690 - Quad Core CPU - $79 + $7.99 shipping
http://www.ebay.com/itm/252397184939 - CPU Cooler - $11.99 + $7.75 shipping
http://www.ebay.com/itm/232157830192 - SAS HBA - $35 + free shipping (you will have to cross flash it to IT mode)

Add some drives to this and it is ready to go. I have been told that this unit includes the SAS1 back-plane which would limit you to 2 TB drives, but you can put 24 of them in there so it might not be that much of a limit and you can get 2TB HGST drives on eBay for around $40 each. If it has the SAS2 back-plane, you are good. I have seen those work with 8TB drives.

This is all about $599 before shipping and with no hard drives. You might be able to find better prices if you work it.

I had actually put this list together for myself but I couldn't get budget approval to make the purchase.

 

[Chris Moore]

Probably closer to $300-$325 to get a better raid card and the proper cables.

If you are using FreeNAS, you don't actually want a "RAID" card. The card I recommended is a PERC H310 (which is a RAID card) but you will flash it to IT mode so that it passes the drive control directly to the operating system.
If you need instructions on how to do that, they are probably on this board somewhere, but just let me know and I can share all the files and instructions because I have done that about six times myself. Once you have the instructions and files, it goes really quick and easy.

Also, the SAS 6/ir (I have been told) will not recognize any drive larger than 2TB because of hardware limitations of the card from the time that it was made. It is an OLD card. Works fine (from what I have been told) with 2TB and less though.

 

[BetYourBottom]

Add some drives to this and it is ready to go. I have been told that this unit includes the SAS1 back-plane which would limit you to 2 TB drives, but you can put 24 of them in there so it might not be that much of a limit and you can get 2TB HGST drives on eBay for around $40 each. If it has the SAS2 back-plane, you are good. I have seen those work with 8TB drives.

This is all about $599 before shipping and with no hard drives. You might be able to find better prices if you work it.

Why would a SAS1 backplane limit you to 2TB drives? I haven't heard anything about SAS1 having a size limitation, only a speed limitation.

To be honest, I'm apprehensive about your build because of the higher price tag. I don't technically pay the cooling and electricity costs for where I live, so that won't come down on me but it definitely is a concern of mine nonetheless. I'm trying to get myself a server for rather cheap, and I don't plan on filling the every tray for awhile so a 24 tray seems beyond me. I do like the high clockrate on the CPU you selected because I know that would be better for the Minecraft server end of things. On the other hand that particular processor actually has a higher TDP than both the l5630s combined and far fewer cores/threads.

Saying all that, I really do appreciate the build and will add it to the things I have to consider going forward.

If you are using FreeNAS, you don't actually want a "RAID" card. The card I recommended is a PERC H310 (which is a RAID card) but you will flash it to IT mode so that it passes the drive control directly to the operating system.

I'm read up on all of that. The cards I posted about considering could both be flashed to IT modes. I'm considering going without a card for awhile, using only the connector that is attached to the motherboard for drives, until I can find the H200 Mezzaninne that goes with this model for cheap.

 

[Chris Moore]

Why would a SAS1 backplane limit you to 2TB drives? I haven't heard anything about SAS1 having a size limitation, only a speed limitation.

I have not personally tested it, so I don't have direct knowledge of the limitation. If you notice, my builds use 2TB drives and H310 cards.

I have been told that it is an actual hardware addressing limitation in the chipset that is used in SAS1. The Dell SAS 6/ir card has the same limitation in that it is SAS1 (first generation SAS) and is not able to address the larger drives. The SAS Expander backplane boards have a chipset built into them that take the 8 SAS lanes from the card and "expand" that to be able to control 24 drives. This chipset that handles the data is where the 2TB limit comes into play.
Again, I have not experienced this, it is based on what I have read on other forums and been told by others. My servers are direct connect, using SAS2 controllers and no expander backplane. I have connected 3TB drives to my H310 (flashed with the LSI firmware) and had no problems at all.

 

[Ericloewe]

Why would a SAS1 backplane limit you to 2TB drives? I haven't heard anything about SAS1 having a size limitation, only a speed limitation.

LSI SAS1 HBAs are limited to 2TB's worth of LBAs. This is a hardware limitation and has no workaround.

This is very widely documented.

 

[Chris Moore]

On the other hand that particular processor actually has a higher TDP than both the l5630s combined and far fewer cores/threads.

Did you notice how I mentioned the RAM when I talked about heat. The hardware you selected is going to be loud and hot. I have worked with that gear at my job. We stand behind them in the server room when we need a break from the cold. It is like standing next to the oven when the door is open. Please trust me, there is a reason it is so cheap on eBay.
Then there is the sound level. I don't know where you plan to keep this, but it will be as loud as the loudest vacuum cleaner you ever used. The old, thin servers have small fast fans and they are LOUD.
Best of luck.

 

[BetYourBottom]

LSI SAS1 HBAs are limited to 2TB's worth of LBAs. This is a hardware limitation and has no workaround.

This is very widely documented.

Would that be a problem with a 1:1 backplane? I figure one should mostly be a dumb adapter for power and data. The backplane of the chassis I'm looking at should have 3 SFF-8484 connectors, which should make it 1:1. I would be replacing the current SAS1 card with an SAS2 one flashed to work as an HBA.

Did you notice how I mentioned the RAM when I talked about heat. The hardware you selected is going to be loud and hot. I have worked with that gear at my job. We stand behind them in the server room when we need a break from the cold. It is like standing next to the oven when the door is open. Please trust me, there is a reason it is so cheap on eBay.
Then there is the sound level. I don't know where you plan to keep this, but it will be as loud as the loudest vacuum cleaner you ever used. The old, thin servers have small fast fans and they are LOUD.
Best of luck.

Yes, I did notice that but I didn't have a reply to that. I should've posted this: https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/ode-to-the-dell-c2100-fs12-ty.43665/
It's written by a guy who really likes this server, he claims that it can actually run relatively quiet. He says that he has 4 of them in a rack and its about as loud as a conversation.

I'm not discounting your advice, if that's what it sounds like. I'm trying to just work this out in my head as well.

I'm considering keeping mine in a closet that would be closed most of the time with some intake fans mounted on the door and some output fans mounted above it. The other option was to throw it in my laundry room and leave the door shut there, it already has a vent to the outside built in. Summer time, I could run the fan to suck out the heat. Winter time, I can open the door and use it to heat the house.

Does this sound reasonable? The closet idea feels farfetched that it'd work to me but I kind've like it.

 

[Ericloewe]

Would that be a problem with a 1:1 backplane?

No, but that's not an "SAS1" backplane.

 

[BetYourBottom]

No, but that's not an "SAS1" backplane.

Well I guess that's a relief. So there shouldn't be any concerns about the old C2100 backplane? I guess that solidifies my current build. It's going to be a hard choice between the two.

 

[BetYourBottom]

I've confirmed with someone with this same backplane model that >2TB drives work as long as you use a HBA/Raid controller that supports them. (just for reference)

I'm starting to get processor speed creep. I started debating between the L5630 and E5630, then the E5630 and E5640.
Can someone help me put a stop to this?

I figure that they are so close together in price (~$10) I should either go lowest power usage with the L5630 or the highest clock with the E5640. Which do you guys think would be better for my purposes.

 

[Chris Moore]

I figure that they are so close together in price (~$10) I should either go lowest power usage with the L5630 or the highest clock with the E5640. Which do you guys think would be better for my purposes.

For your usage, the Minecraft for example, you would be better off getting more and faster cores to support the potential utilization and to stave off the time when you will potentially want to upgrade to a newer and faster platform.

I have found that my CPU utilization (with eight available threads at 3.1 GHz) is only high when I am trans-coding videos for PLEX (can be as high as 90%) or if the system is running multiple other processes (usually no more than 30%) that include heavy file transfer.

Your mileage may vary, but you want to go as high as the chassis will support so you can use it for a long time. Don't be tempted to upgrade without a real need, it just costs money.

 

[BetYourBottom]

For your usage, the Minecraft for example, you would be better off getting more and faster cores to support the potential utilization and to stave off the time when you will potentially want to upgrade to a newer and faster platform.

I have found that my CPU utilization (with eight available threads at 3.1 GHz) is only high when I am trans-coding videos for PLEX (can be as high as 90%) or if the system is running multiple other processes (usually no more than 30%) that include heavy file transfer.

Your mileage may vary, but you want to go as high as the chassis will support so you can use it for a long time. Don't be tempted to upgrade without a real need, it just costs money.

Then I guess I'll go with the E5640. That'll still leave some headroom if I absolutely need to upgrade later down the line to something from the X or W series. Thanks for all the help, I think my build is locked in now. Sorry that I'm not going with your more modern setup, something like that is what I'll move to if and when I need more space or want to modernize.

 

[Chris Moore]

Sorry that I'm not going with your more modern setup, something like that is what I'll move to if and when I need more space or want to modernize.

You have to do what you have to do be be able to afford the hardware. My first FreeNAS build was on re-purposed desktop hardware (don't do that) and my next two were both on re-purposed Dell Precision workstations, they both had socket 1366 Xeon CPU and ECC memory. They worked great, and I might still be using them except for some limitations of the chassis. Specifically, they only had room for 6 hard drives and only if I wedged three into the space where the 2 5.25" drives were when they were being computers instead of servers.

I really enjoy the ability to hot-swap hard drives that using actual server hardware gives me and that is a good reason to use a server chassis. I like the 3 to 4U chassis from SuperMicro because they give me the opportunity to choose the system board from a wide variety of available boards and put as many cards in it as the board will support. The 1 and 2U servers always have artificial limits on how much you can add because of how small the chassis is and I just don't want that limitation.

The SuperMicro boards also have IPMI remote management (KVM over IP) so you don't ever have to connect a keyboard, mouse or monitor to the system. Just plug in the power and network and go. You can remotely mount an ISO over the network and remotely view even the BIOS via the same connection so you can load your OS and do all management without even being in the same room as the server or having a CD drive installed in it for that matter.

While you are working toward affording better hardware, you might want to look into the options. I have used a lot of Dell hardware, I don't want you to think I am down on them. Where I work, we use a lot of Dell and HP hardware as well as Sun and others, but for home use the SuperMicro gear gives me more flexibility.

 

[BetYourBottom]

I've gotten my Dell C2100 build together and I could use some help getting it up and running.

I'm having some issues getting anything to show up on screen on both VGA and KVM.

Here's a link to my thread for discussing this. https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/need-help-with-dell-c2100.48575/