Confused about SAS expander cards

[LIGISTX]

So I did some research into this (Sorry, I am still a HUGE noob) as I am planning a Freenas build pretty soon. I have looked around this forum from time to time, keep up with some things, but generally am not very knowledgeable on server configs.... yet.

I am looking at building something between a 14-16 drive build with a X10SL7-F as the backbone. This is where the confusion starts.

Yes, I know SAS can be broken out to SATA, and I know this mobo has a from what I understand pretty sweet LSI 2308 card, but it has SATA ports.... So, can I use a reverse breakout cable to a Intel RES2SV240? I need to get my 14-16 data drives plugged into this dude somehow. I know I don't want an actual RAID controller as ZFS will be handling all of that and I want basically no hardware intervention, but is this a good solution? Or... get a RAID card and put it in IT mode in addition to using the SATA ports from the LSI 2308 controller on the board?

I am just very confused as to the most economical way of doing this. The server will be for multimedia, but it will never be serving more than say 5 streams of HD content at once, with some writes being done. Not like I need the utmost performance here, but I also don't want to skimp on a few hundred dollars that would make the difference to the experience.

I also need to figure out how much RAM I will need, not sure if 16 gigs will be enough since I will be using 3 TB drives for this build (expecting somewhere between 30-39 TB of usable space with three drives for redundancy, but may up it to 32 gigs of RAM, but that is marginal money at this point....

Anyways, back to the original question. What is the best way to get 16 3 TB drives plugged into a X10SL7-F?

 

[danb35]

So, can I use a reverse breakout cable to a Intel RES2SV240?

Yep.

 

[LIGISTX]

Yep.

Is that the "correct" way of doing this? lol

 

[danb35]

It's a perfectly cromulent way to do it. I think a more common method would be to have the SAS expander in a backplane rather than as a separate card (this is how my system is set up), but what you propose should be just fine.

 

[LIGISTX]

It's a perfectly cromulent way to do it. I think a more common method would be to have the SAS expander in a backplane rather than as a separate card (this is how my system is set up), but what you propose should be just fine.

Sorry for the ignorance, but would most chassis have a backplane? Or.... I am just getting my feet wet in server builds so I am not sure how it all works. I am trying to build this *somewhat* on the cheap, not saying I want to cut corners, but if I can save a few hundred bucks by using a normal desktop case + this expansion card instead of buying an expensive server Chassis with a backplane in it, I may opt for that.

 

[TXAG26]

I'd opt for a 2nd LSI HBA instead of an expander. I was unable to update the firmware on my LSI-based Intel expander and the system never felt quite as solid as it should have. I eventually pulled the expander card and just direct-cabled all of the drives. You should be fine with a 2nd HBA on the X10SL7-F since it already has 8 ports from the LSI 2308 onboard, plus dual gigabit. The two PCIe slots give you enough room for a 2nd 8 or 16 port HBA, plus another NIC down the road (e.g. 10Gbe, etc.).

 

[LIGISTX]

I'd opt for a 2nd LSI HBA instead of an expander. I was unable to update the firmware on my LSI-based Intel expander and the system never felt quite as solid as it should have. I eventually pulled the expander card and just direct-cabled all of the drives. You should be fine with a 2nd HBA on the X10SL7-F since it already has 8 ports from the LSI 2308 onboard, plus dual gigabit. The two PCIe slots give you enough room for a 2nd 8 or 16 port HBA, plus another NIC down the road (e.g. 10Gbe, etc.).

So, go with the pretty well acclaimed M1015, flash it to IT mode, and have plenty of SATA ports would be the way to do this?

 

[TXAG26]

So, go with the pretty well acclaimed M1015, flash it to IT mode, and have plenty of SATA ports would be the way to do this?

That would be my recommendation if you know you won't go beyond 16 drives with your build + whatever motherboard SATA ports you plan on using. I think the less silicon between your SAS controller and HDDs the better, Supermicro backplanes being the exception.

I went with one of the Supermicro AOC-2308 PCIe cards. I've seen them for around $100 on Google/eBay (lightly used/server pulls). I paid $170 for mine new about a year ago and prices have fallen a lot with the release of the SAS3 3008 adapters.

There is also a LSI/Avago 16 port version floating around too (9201-16i).

 

[LIGISTX]

That would be my recommendation if you know you won't go beyond 16 drives with your build + whatever motherboard SATA ports you plan on using. I think the less silicon between your SAS controller and HDDs the better, Supermicro backplanes being the exception.

I went with one of the Supermicro AOC-2308 PCIe cards. I've seen them for around $100 on Google/eBay (lightly used/server pulls). I paid $170 for mine new about a year ago and prices have fallen a lot with the release of the SAS3 3008 adapters.

There is also a LSI/Avago 16 port version floating around too (9201-16i).

Ok. I will look into that! I think the next challenge will be finding a case to support this amount of drives that won't cost more than my mobo+CPU+ram lol. And then figure out how much RAM I actually need. I guess I'll make new threads about all of that once I get a bit of a better direction with the build in a day or two.


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[TXAG26]

I needed "big and quiet" for my cases. If you're brave, check out Caselabs. They go from "mild to wild" with regards to HDD storage space! Hands down the best computer case I've built in to-date. 120mm fans keep it cool and quiet.

http://www.caselabs-store.com/

 

[Stux]

Yep.

Are you sure?

A reverse breakout turns Sata into mini-sas port, but it's still Sata and I don't think the sas expander will expand Sata.

 

[LIGISTX]

Are you sure?

A reverse breakout turns Sata into mini-sas port, but it's still Sata and I don't think the sas expander will expand Sata.

It should tho. It's just a different plug, same data traveling through the wires.


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[danb35]

Are you sure?

A reverse breakout turns Sata into mini-sas port, but it's still Sata and I don't think the sas expander will expand Sata.

In OP's case, yes, I'm sure. OP is speaking of an X10SL7 motherboard, which has 8 SAS ports. Four of them into a reverse breakout cable will give you a mini-SAS connector with all the appropriate signaling.

 

[Stux]

In OP's case, yes, I'm sure. OP is speaking of an X10SL7 motherboard, which has 8 SAS ports. Four of them into a reverse breakout cable will give you a mini-SAS connector with all the appropriate signaling.

Thanks. The blue ones :)

 

[LIGISTX]

It's a perfectly cromulent way to do it. I think a more common method would be to have the SAS expander in a backplane rather than as a separate card (this is how my system is set up), but what you propose should be just fine.

I'd opt for a 2nd LSI HBA instead of an expander. I was unable to update the firmware on my LSI-based Intel expander and the system never felt quite as solid as it should have. I eventually pulled the expander card and just direct-cabled all of the drives. You should be fine with a 2nd HBA on the X10SL7-F since it already has 8 ports from the LSI 2308 onboard, plus dual gigabit. The two PCIe slots give you enough room for a 2nd 8 or 16 port HBA, plus another NIC down the road (e.g. 10Gbe, etc.).

Ok guys, I am trying to learn up on it all, but there is still some confusion. I think I want to go the route of buying a used super micro chassis, and potentially even using the hardware that comes with it (any reason not to...? If it works, it should just work right?).

I am looking at a SC846TQ-R1200B chassis. So, if I am correct, this means it has a 846TQ backplane which it does. And from my limited knowledge, I believe this backplane should work just fine for my needs, it should be a direct SATA pass through which would allow me to use any size hard drives with all 24 drive cradles fully used.

Is that correct?

If so, it looks like the particular chassis I am looking at has no RAID card which is fine, I will pick up the one everyone here recommends and flash it to IT mode. It also has 128 gigs of ECC ram (talk about crazy! I will NEVER run out of ram!), and dual E5645 cpu's on a X8DTN+.

Are my assumptions here correct? Any advice would be awesome! It's a lot to learn, much different than "go buy a Z170 mobo, slap some RAM and a i5/7 CPU on it etc".


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[danb35]

What you're describing sounds like it should work fine, but I'm not a fan of the TQ backplanes--they lead to a rat's nest of SATA cabling, even in the 12-bay varieties (I speak from experience). I'd strongly recommend one of the E16 units instead, if possible--a single mini-SAS cable would be all you need.

But that said, it should work fine. Be aware that it won't exactly be energy-efficient--my system is a generation newer, and it still idles at around 300 watts.

 

[LIGISTX]

What you're describing sounds like it should work fine, but I'm not a fan of the TQ backplanes--they lead to a rat's nest of SATA cabling, even in the 12-bay varieties (I speak from experience). I'd strongly recommend one of the E16 units instead, if possible--a single mini-SAS cable would be all you need.

But that said, it should work fine. Be aware that it won't exactly be energy-efficient--my system is a generation newer, and it still idles at around 300 watts.

Well, me and a few buddies actually share the NAS. And the guys place where it will be living actually has free electricity, I have no idea HOW that is a thing, but, it is lol. So not a HUGE concern. But, that being said, I will look into a unit with an E16 backplane. Not sure I have seen that in my searching yet tho.


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[LIGISTX]

What you're describing sounds like it should work fine, but I'm not a fan of the TQ backplanes--they lead to a rat's nest of SATA cabling, even in the 12-bay varieties (I speak from experience). I'd strongly recommend one of the E16 units instead, if possible--a single mini-SAS cable would be all you need.

But that said, it should work fine. Be aware that it won't exactly be energy-efficient--my system is a generation newer, and it still idles at around 300 watts.

Sorry, a lot of quoting..... But I just found one (probably WAY overpowered), but it's a 847E16 R1400LPB

And it does come with an LSI 9211-8i "HBA JBOD" card. Not sure if that is one that everyone in here endorses or not. Would have to look into that part.


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[danb35]

A couple of options with E16 backplanes:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4U-Supermic...614263?hash=item21146d1677:g:45sAAOSwhOdXpNGk
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPERMICRO-...949021?hash=item58e0947a1d:g:KykAAOSwExJXoq4q
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPERMICRO-...461618?hash=item21142db932:g:7QgAAOSwdzVXn1zv
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPERMICRO-...759111?hash=item58e03606c7:g:PcsAAOSwENxXm5SD

 

[LIGISTX]

A couple of options with E16 backplanes:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4U-Supermic...614263?hash=item21146d1677:g:45sAAOSwhOdXpNGk
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPERMICRO-...949021?hash=item58e0947a1d:g:KykAAOSwExJXoq4q
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPERMICRO-...461618?hash=item21142db932:g:7QgAAOSwdzVXn1zv
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPERMICRO-...759111?hash=item58e03606c7:g:PcsAAOSwENxXm5SD

Yup. Those first three I found as well.

Thanks for the help! Much appreciated.

Also, is there any good reason not to buy used server gear? Have there been horror stories of used stuff crapping the bed and taking our peoples data? Really don't want to do all of this and run into issues. If that is of concern, maybe I would get the cheapest chassis with an E16 backplane I can find and throw the guts out and build a modern power efficient system in it.


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