Building FreeNAS Box, Hardware selection Help

[BYOGamingPC]

OK, so this is my first NAS build and post to FreeNAS forums but need some advice. I'm wanting to use it for backups for mobile devices (IOS and Android) and also for my PC's as well as streaming media and storage of pictures, documents, and personal file backups. I'm planning to build an HTPC in the future and also use this as a DVR. This will be used for home and home office and I'm trying to build a small form factor rig as economically as possible. It's possible that FreeNAS really isn't the best choice for my needs and I'm open to suggestions but below are the parts I've already purchased/selected for my build.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Pentium G2120 3.1GHz Dual-Core Processor ($69.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Asus P8H77-I Mini ITX LGA1155 Motherboard ($104.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: A-Data XPG Gaming Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($139.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($119.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($119.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($119.99 @ Amazon)
Wired Network Adapter: Intel EXPI9402PT 10/100/1000 Mbps PCI-Express x4 Network Adapter ($47.99 @ Amazon)
Case: Fractal Design Node 304 Mini ITX Tower Case ($54.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 360W 80 PLUS Gold Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($59.99 @ Amazon)
Other: Kingston Digital 16GB DataTraveler Micro USB 2.0 (DTMCK/16 GB) ($12.98)
Total: $860.90
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-10-20 23:00 EDT-0400)

Unfortunately, I cannot find a Mini-ITX board for under $200 so I'm stuck with the one I've selected which is a great board but not a server board. The place I'm REALLY stuck at is with ECC RAM and whether I should just order some to go with my current P8H77-I board and if that will even work. I cannot for the life of me find 16GB ECC RAM for a decent price and want to know if it's really worth the investment in getting for the board that I have. Suggestions of any kind are welcome even if it is to dump the whole FreeNAS direction!

 

[N00b]

The Seagate Barracudas 72oo rpm drives are desktop drives and run very hot. I bought these for my box before I knew better and they normally run at 35-40C . Start scrubbing and they can easily touch 45C or more especially with a badly ventilated box (been there as well). Check out the ST3000VN00 . They are supposed to be NAS drives especially non-enterprise grade. Also available in a 4TB size. I have limited experience but it seems WD drives are more popular with people on the forum. But as cyberjock said ( i think it was him) choosing HDD brand is a personal choice with little agreement between most people.

Wonder if anyone tried these drives and what the feedback was? I am also planning to buy these. Also would it be a good idea to mix the 7200s and the NAS drives and rebuild my RAID or would I have a problem.

 

[cyberjock]

7200RPM drives just run hot, regardless of brand. They are bad choices for NASes unless you plan to run them with excessive cooling to offset the higher heat load.

You can mix and match different speeds, brands, and sizes but your pool will perform at the slowest and smallest disk in your vdev.

I'm not sure what the RPM of the ST3000VN00 is as the RPM wasn't readily available in 1 minute of googling. But if its 7200RPM I'd argue that it makes a poor "NAS" disk.

 

[BYOGamingPC]

Thanks for the advice about the drives. I would prefer to have the WD Red drives but already have the Barracuda's. My biggest question is concerning the RAM setup on my motherboard. My CPU can utilized ECC RAM but the motherboard specs state that it supports non-ECC RAM. I'm wondering if I can still use ECC RAM or if it's even really necessary for me to purchase ECC RAM.

 

[cyberjock]

For Intel, the motherboard chipset and CPU must support RAM. Your motherboard does NOT support ECC. Only the server chipset support ECC RAM. That's why if you read the stickies around we always recommend motherboards that have server chipsets. They aren't that much more expensive, but its a door that once crossed cannot be undone.

Notice that you have no expansion capabilities with your build. Your PCIe slot is taken with your Intel NIC and you are limited to 16GB of RAM. You are basically stuck with what you have. If your onboard SATA isn't compatible you are really in trouble as you have no upgradability.

But, if you went with the Supermicro X9SCM-F you are paying for a mother board that:

1. Is a server chipset, so it supports ECC RAM.
2. Has upgrade potential since it is expandable to 32GB of ECC RAM.
3. Has built-in dual Gb Intel NIC.
4. Multiple PCIe slots for expandability if needed.
5. Doesn't have any BS hardware that you don't need like audio.
6. Has built-in IPMI. (This is like remote desktop for the whole computer.. you can even go into the BIOS remotely!) You will NEVER build a server without IPMI again once you see it in action.
7. Cost you a whole $20 more than the motherboard + NIC you bought for the same devices as an all-in-one solution.
8. Far better quality components as Supermicro is a top-notch high reliability server motherboard manufacturer.
9. Will surely save you some watts since you are solving #5.

So which build is smarter? Your build where you bought stuff that isn't ideal, then bought more stuff to offset the limitations; or my build where it has all the stuff you need and none of the stuff you don't.

And suddenly you will see why we don't recommend configurations like yours and recommend server grade stuff like the X9SCM-F in virtually every sticky and every hardware thread you see.

 

[Yatti420]

I'm planning on a migration to the X9SCM-F.. I'm jonesing to see this IPMI in action.. I'm not sure about higher quality server boards but I noticed the X9 series takes unbuffered ecc ram which appears to be much more costly then registered ECC as far as I can tell..

 

[cyberjock]

I'm planning on a migration to the X9SCM-F.. I'm jonesing to see this IPMI in action.. I'm not sure about higher quality server boards but I noticed the X9 series takes unbuffered ecc ram which appears to be much more costly then registered ECC as far as I can tell..

It can and does. But when you consider the amount of money you've put into the build and the fact that the RAM is a single point of failure to trash your pool and your backup pool/backup storage location its suddenly money well spent. Most of us don't go to ZFS because its cheap. We go to ZFS for the reliability and protection. Too many people think that the reliability and protection is free. It's not.

 

[Yatti420]

I agree with using ECC..

The followup question is whether RDIMM (Buffered/Registred ECC) or UDIMM (Unbuffered/Unregistered ECC) is the better choice.. Slight performance hit for RDIMM.. But provide better protection along the ram signal pathway? Are you at a significant disadvantage running UDIMMS versus going for a board / support for RDIMM..

 

[cyberjock]

There is a slight performance penalty, but the real issue is how much RAM you need. Your motherboard manual will provide information on when you need to use Registered RAM or not. The performance gains for ZFS with more RAM far far outweight any loss in performance from being limited to less RAM.

The short answer for most situations is that if you plan to use RAM stick bigger than 8GB at any time, you should stick with registered RAM. This is a fundamental electrical limitation for DDR3 RAM. If you plan to use only 8GB sticks or smaller you can opt for unregistered RAM. Just keep in mind that you can't mix and match registered and unregistered. So think before you buy and be ready to stick with it to the end.

 

[Yatti420]

True.. I believe the X9 only supports 32GB DDR3 ECC UDIMM max so for that board you would have to use UDIMM.. I figured this was the case.. I think most users would be more then fine with an x9 and 32gb.. I was just curious (i haven't priced it yet) if a better board with ECC Registered would be a better deal..

 

[cyberjock]

True.. I believe the X9 only supports 32GB DDR3 ECC UDIMM max so for that board you would have to use UDIMM.. I figured this was the case.. I think most users would be more then fine with an x9 and 32gb.. I was just curious (i haven't priced it yet) if a better board with ECC Registered would be a better deal..

You are correct. X9s are 32GB ECC UDIMMs.

8GB UDIMMs start at about $95 on Newegg while RDIMMs start at about $80. RDIMMs are often a slower speed, but that's inconsequential for FreeNAS. So you save a little bit, but not so much that its a net savings for you.

 

[BYOGamingPC]

For Intel, the motherboard chipset and CPU must support RAM. Your motherboard does NOT support ECC. Only the server chipset support ECC RAM. That's why if you read the stickies around we always recommend motherboards that have server chipsets. They aren't that much more expensive, but its a door that once crossed cannot be undone.

Notice that you have no expansion capabilities with your build. Your PCIe slot is taken with your Intel NIC and you are limited to 16GB of RAM. You are basically stuck with what you have. If your onboard SATA isn't compatible you are really in trouble as you have no upgradability.

But, if you went with the Supermicro X9SCM-F you are paying for a mother board that:

1. Is a server chipset, so it supports ECC RAM.
2. Has upgrade potential since it is expandable to 32GB of ECC RAM.
3. Has built-in dual Gb Intel NIC.
4. Multiple PCIe slots for expandability if needed.
5. Doesn't have any BS hardware that you don't need like audio.
6. Has built-in IPMI. (This is like remote desktop for the whole computer.. you can even go into the BIOS remotely!) You will NEVER build a server without IPMI again once you see it in action.
7. Cost you a whole $20 more than the motherboard + NIC you bought for the same devices as an all-in-one solution.
8. Far better quality components as Supermicro is a top-notch high reliability server motherboard manufacturer.
9. Will surely save you some watts since you are solving #5.

So which build is smarter? Your build where you bought stuff that isn't ideal, then bought more stuff to offset the limitations; or my build where it has all the stuff you need and none of the stuff you don't.

And suddenly you will see why we don't recommend configurations like yours and recommend server grade stuff like the X9SCM-F in virtually every sticky and every hardware thread you see.

Thank you for the response. Unfortunately, I think I put myself in a corner with my build. I have the Fractal Node 304 which is a mini-ITX case. I've searched for a mini-ITX server board to no avail. The only options I saw were $500+ which was a big no-can-do for me. I would love to go with the Supermicro board that you suggested and have actually looked at it but it will not work in the case I've selected. The reason I went with the Node 304 is due to it's extremely smaller form factor, good cooling, and ability to store up to six 3.5" drives which is more than I'll ever need. I guess my options are to return my case and motherboard and go your route or move away from FreeNAS to Windows Server or another program. I've had little experience with servers so I'm not sure which option is going to be best for my situation. Thanks for all your help so far.

 

[cyberjock]

Thank you for the response. Unfortunately, I think I put myself in a corner with my build. I have the Fractal Node 304 which is a mini-ITX case. I've searched for a mini-ITX server board to no avail. The only options I saw were $500+ which was a big no-can-do for me. I would love to go with the Supermicro board that you suggested and have actually looked at it but it will not work in the case I've selected. The reason I went with the Node 304 is due to it's extremely smaller form factor, good cooling, and ability to store up to six 3.5" drives which is more than I'll ever need. I guess my options are to return my case and motherboard and go your route or move away from FreeNAS to Windows Server or another program. I've had little experience with servers so I'm not sure which option is going to be best for my situation. Thanks for all your help so far.

And you are far from alone in that choice. Just remember, you are choosing to trade size for reliability. If that trade is a good deal for you or not is totally based on your comfort left. I'd never do it. The fact that it can trash your backups makes it too scary for me.

 

[BYOGamingPC]

Do you have a good micro-ATX case recommendation that is small with at least 6 drive bays? :)

 

[cyberjock]

That totally depends on your definition of "small".

Cases are a lot like hard drives and religion. Everyone has their own needs and wants(and acceptable price). I try not to recommend things like cases because there's so many and I'm not a fan of going shopping if I don't get to spend money and have new toys. :P

I go big. Sometimes VERY big. Here's my desktop...http://www.mountainmods.com/ascension-duality-mirror-black-powder-coat-original-top-p-463.html

 

[BYOGamingPC]

Oh, I love the new toys also but I don't need more than 6x3TB drives for the home and really want something small, quiet, and classy looking. I'm thinking the Fractal Design Define Mini may be a good route to go. Now I need to ship everything back to where it came from, again... By the way, the link to the Hardware Recommendations in your signature is where I got the idea for the Node 304. You may want to have a note made that it is a mini-ITX case and has a very limited number of boards that will work in it.

Is it worth keeping the NIC card if I get the Supermicro board?

 

[cyberjock]

Oh, I love the new toys also but I don't need more than 6x3TB drives for the home and really want something small, quiet, and classy looking. I'm thinking the Fractal Design Define Mini may be a good route to go. Now I need to ship everything back to where it came from, again... By the way, the link to the Hardware Recommendations in your signature is where I got the idea for the Node 304. You may want to have a note made that it is a mini-ITX case and has a very limited number of boards that will work in it.

Well, if you read that whole post it says, in bold, to buy ECC. It also says that ZFS should be used with ECC.

And if you want to go non-ECC, UFS is an option. For most people though, they go FreeNAS for the ZFS.

I don't know why I'd have to warn you not to go mini-ITX when a mini-ITX board could be out next week that is ECC. It's a matter of you making decisions for your build. Plenty of people have run with non-ECC without problems. Its about your comfortability with going against the design considerations of ZFS.

Is it worth keeping the NIC card if I get the Supermicro board?

I always keep a spare around. If you don't have a spare Intel NIC I'd keep it. May come in handy for troubleshooting.

 

[BYOGamingPC]

Thanks, I'll be changing my hardware out with the motherboard you mentioned and some ECC RAM.

 

[BYOGamingPC]

One more question, I have a spare 60GB SSD. Is it worth using to cache with or is there an even better use for it in my NAS box? I'll have 16GB RAM and 3x3TB drives in the build and use it primarily as a backup and for streaming video.

 

[cyberjock]

Read the presentation I wrote(link in my sig). It explains the cache thing and provides you with some info.