Boot choices: USB+NVME or 2.5" SSD?

[luckyluke699]

Hello All,

I am building Scale on a HP ML 30 (Gen 10) I picked up cheap. I'm looking for how best to boot without losing any of the onboard SATA ports, and without using a cheap M.2 NVME (due to a common fan noise issue with HP servers).

My options for booting are to:
1. Boot via NVME enclosure, connected to internal USB 3.0 port on motherboard.
I already have this, and could secure it easily in the case: https://www.amazon.co.uk/FIDECO-External-Enclosure-Adapter-Transfer-M-2-PCIe-NVME/dp/B07TSBR114

2. Boot via 2.5" SSD, connected to a PCIE-SATA adapter OR M.2-SATA adapter (motherboard has a gen3 x2 M.2 port)
I have an old 2.5" SSD already, but don't have the adapter. These appear quite common and easy to purchase cheaply on Amazon e.g.
- NVME-SATA adapter: https://www.amazon.co.uk/MZHOU-SATA3-0-Expansion-Adapter-JMB582-KEY-M-2/dp/B0B14GZX3M
- PCIE-SATA adaper: https://www.amazon.co.uk/VBESTLIFE-Express-Controller-Adapter-Boards-default/dp/B07C96TR4X

3. Partition the (expensive) HP compatible NVME I plan to buy (Kingston DC1000b) and use for both boot & apps. Sounds like this is unsupported, but works well?


What are people's thoughts? Thank you in advance for your input! :)
Luke

 

[artlessknave]

Partition the (expensive) HP compatible NVME I plan to buy (Kingston DC1000b) and use for both boot & apps. Sounds like this is unsupported, but works well?

no. this is unsupported AND it does not work well, because it doesnt work at all unless you break truenas to get it "working". such setups typically break things and introduce issues later, as you have literally broken truenas to get it work at all.

Boot via NVME enclosure, connected to internal USB 3.0 port on motherboard.

no. USB + ZFS is highly discouraged, particularly across bridge things like this. they are cheap for a reason, and ZFS will cheerfullly eat it and spit it out.

- NVME-SATA adapter: https://www.amazon.co.uk/MZHOU-SATA3-0-Expansion-Adapter-JMB582-KEY-M-2/dp/B0B14GZX3M
- PCIE-SATA adaper: https://www.amazon.co.uk/VBESTLIFE-Express-Controller-Adapter-Boards-default/dp/B07C96TR4X

no. see above.

HP ML 30 (Gen 10)

this is not the system specs. these have a large number of different configurations, and HPE SUCKS at telling me what the specs are if i try and search for it.
the HP page says this has a software raid card. you cannot use that if it doesn't have a non raid mode, so if the SATA ports are on that...you cant use them anyway.

"- The S100i only supports Windows."

from what I am able to find on the HP site, this does not seem like a good system for TrueNAS, but, again, the HP site sucks. it looks like, if you can change where the drive cage(s?) plugs in you might be able to bypass the RAID and get truenas compatible storage with an HBA. 1 9211 will give you 8 drives and solve this whole concern. if you want more drives you can expand with an expander. up to 256 drives. if you have a pcie slot for an ewaste sata card, you have a pcie slot for a reliable HBA. though, if you want to use any SSDs you should probably get a 9300 generation HBA.

 

[artlessknave]

SOLVED - HP Proliant DL380 Gen 10 installing problem

Hi, I'm new to the community and with freenas, I'm trying to install it on a new HP Proliant DL380 Gen10 server, but the installer does not recognize the server's hard drives. I have 8, 1Gb disk and I have tried all disk array combinations and nothing. I have tried Ubuntu, Debian and Windows and...

www.truenas.com

this post appears to show you have to enable AHCI mode, which should work. an HBA is still the solution to your concerns about not having enough sata for boot drives. you can tape SSDs anywhere or leave them sitting on the bottom of the chassis...either way will be better than basically everything you proposed above.

 

[ChrisRJ]

no. USB + ZFS is highly discouraged, particularly across bridge things like this. they are cheap for a reason, and ZFS will cheerfullly eat it and spit it out.

While this is generally correct (i.e. for storage pool drives), it does not apply to boot devices.

 

[artlessknave]

While this is generally correct (i.e. for storage pool drives), it does not apply to boot devices.

pretty sure the boot device recommendations recommend against boot USBs.

 

[luckyluke699]

Thank you everyone for taking the time to reply. I appreciate it very much

this is not the system specs. these have a large number of different configurations, and HPE SUCKS at telling me what the specs are if i try and search for it.

HP ML 30 (Gen 10) spec, and what I have installed currently is as below:
Xeon E-2234
128GB ECC UDIMM
Nvidia RTX A2000 graphics card
6x 16TB Toshiba (mg08aca16te) hard drives - 4 in the LFF 3.5" cage, and 2 in the 5.25" bays. All drives connect to a direct SATA connection on the motherboard. Raid is turned off (AHCI mode).

Some info on the ML30 here:
https://cdn.cs.1worldsync.com/syndi...0B8B5AC14DCBDAD5DE54C04DC281EC2753_source.PDF
https://www.servethehome.com/hpe-proliant-ml30-gen10-review/

the HP page says this has a software raid card. you cannot use that if it doesn't have a non raid mode, so if the SATA ports are on that...you cant use them anyway.

this post appears to show you have to enable AHCI mode, which should work

You're absolutely correct, RAID is turned off and running via AHCI mode. It seems to work ok. I agree I'd have the same concerns you've raised otherwise.

The only issue I've hit so far with the HP ML, is that certain non-HP hardware (e.g. most M.2 NVME drives) can cause the fans to spin excessively fast and loud. For this reason I was considering buying 1x Kingston DC1000B 1TB NVME to use for my apps, which is supposedly compatible.

While this is generally correct (i.e. for storage pool drives), it does not apply to boot devices.

Thank you for confirming. Scale hardware guide cites "You do not need an SSD boot device, but we discourage using a spinner or a USB stick". I'd read elsewhere previously that this is due to poor quality flash USB sticks often contain, but that USB (interface) + attached SSD is ok, and taken the word 'stick' quite literally as a result?

"The advice is not against USB as an interface, but your typical USB stick... What works in general is a USB-SATA adapter"
https://www.truenas.com/community/threads/why-is-usb-boot-bad-longevity-or-connection.104598/


So it sounds at this point like I should definitely avoid cheap PCIE-SATA adapters or partitioning drives. But that I could potentially consider...
- PCIE-NVME riser + NVME (£62 for a compatible 240GB Kingston DC1000B)
- USB attached generic NVME (cheap option)
- Proper HBA card with SSD

 

[ChrisRJ]

pretty sure the boot device recommendations recommend against boot USBs.

As @luckyluke699 mentioned this about the endurance of typical USB sticks. The USB interface per se is ok for boot devices, but should be avoided for actual data storage.