Additional HDDs Pool?

[Fyodor]

Thanks for comments.

First of all, I've installed extra fan for 5 inch compartment with these HDDs. It was not quite standard installation, but fan sits well and secure.

Then, what shall I do with this HDD? Report also shows "Reallocated_Sector_Ct" is 0, - does it mean HDDs SMART management ignores pending sectors and is not going to replace them?

I've red thru well done Hard Drive Troubleshooting Guide by joeschmuck. was replacing the SATA cable and SATA port - no change, 312 pending sectors are in place. Should I go thru BadBlocks test? Both, smartctl -long and badblocks are only tests, they are not curing the drive - correct?

 

[Robert Trevellyan]

Report also shows "Reallocated_Sector_Ct" is 0, - does it mean HDDs SMART management ignores pending sectors and is not going to replace them?

A sector cannot be reallocated as a result of a read failure (think about it).

It remains pending reallocation until either a successful read (pending decrements, reallocated unchanged), a successful write (pending decrements, reallocated unchanged), or a failed write (pending decrements, reallocated increments).

 

[Fyodor]

OK. I assume since nothing has been written, no data at read does not force reallocation. Do I need another test? Do I keep it in and prepare for replacement or scrap it now and go buy new one?

 

[Adrian]

It might be worth running badblocks -w, which does 4 write/check read passes across the disk (the writes should fix / reallocate) and see how the SMART stats change. Personally I would scrap it. Also, it is a WD Green so unless you have managed to disable the park heads on idle feature and enable time limited error recovery I'd replace it with something more suitable for a NAS.

https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?resources/hardware-recommendations-guide.12/ and its PDF is well worth reading. A lot of work has been put into the recommendations.

 

[Fyodor]

Thanks for everyone commenting my questions. I was reading hardware guide (in fact, has learned a lot more last month than years before), but still seems too late. If I knew WD Green is not the best choice before I wouldn't buy 4 disks 3 TB size each used from hands... Too bad. Now I need either allow for some loss of data safety, or make extra investments and figure out how to manage my previous purchase.

- If I go buy new ones I select WD Red or Seagate IronWolf or any other NAS type also recommended?
- I'm having old 5 x 500 GB zpool now arranged into RAIDZ1 giving me about 1,6 TB of storage. I've learned that mirror is safer arrangement than RAIDZ1/2. If I buy 2 x 4 TB disks, arrange them as separate RAID1 zpool (mirror), then move all data to this new zpool and use old one as backup location - I should more than double the capacity and obtain extra copy by making backup, which I haven't done before. Does it seem reasonable? Can I compress data at backup to fit 4 TB data into 1,6 TB location?

 

[Robert Trevellyan]

There's no reason to expect your WD Greens to fail sooner than WD Reds. The biggest practical difference between the two lines is that the Reds have TLER, which can help a lot when dealing with a failing drive. Without TLER or equivalent, the system can become unresponsive, which makes it harder to diagnose and fix.

If I go buy new ones I select WD Red or Seagate IronWolf or any other NAS type also recommended?

HGST NAS drives are another option.

I've learned that mirror is safer arrangement than RAIDZ1/2

I think you may have misunderstood something you read. There are pros and cons with RAIDZ vs mirrors, but "mirror is safer" is not an accurate statement. I would argue that for the average user, the main benefit of mirrors is flexibility.

 

[IceBoosteR]

Does it seem reasonable? Can I compress data at backup to fit 4 TB data into 1,6 TB location?

As Robert Trevellyan has answered the other questions, I'll only quote the last part.
It might be possible, depending of the data you have stored right now on the array. As databases, documents and so on are good data types to compress, you maybe have a chance. IF you have photos, music and videos, you will defenetly need mopre storage, as those files are already compressed.
So I think the chance to compress your files from 4TB to 1,6 are really bad...

 

[Fyodor]

Thanks for comment, IceBoosteR. Yes, photos/videos are large part of data stored, so this compression idea will not probably work. Theoretically I have 4 x 3 TB HDDs (hopefully) coming into the system, so I will need to figure out how can I extend storage capacity and manage backing up data using this additional space.

Adrian and Robert, I'm currently running badblocks -b 4096 -ws /dev/adaX command for all 4 new drives including the one in question presenting 312 pending sectors. It is 42+ hours passed for now and is still ongoing. Will report the output next weekend. I was also studying Cyberjock's HOWTO discussion Hacking WD Greens (and Reds) with WDIDLE.exe and it seems I could work on my WD Greens to make them more suitable for NAS usage. Will take care of it if and as soon as badblocks will return something good.

 

[styno]

I am pretty sure the drive will end up fine after badblocks, I had the same issue with one of my drives and a simple 'wipe and zero fill' from within FreeNas cleared the
Pending Sector issues. As long as the drive is properly cooled, is showing no signs of other smart related sector warnings (and your ram is not failing), you'll be good to go.

 

[IceBoosteR]

Thanks for comment, IceBoosteR. Yes, photos/videos are large part of data stored, so this compression idea will not probably work. Theoretically I have 4 x 3 TB HDDs (hopefully) coming into the system, so I will need to figure out how can I extend storage capacity and manage backing up data using this additional space.

I would recommend to use a RAIDZ1 with the new 3TB drives as a new pool. It is recommended to use RAIDZ2 for more security, but with a limiting drive count, I see more disadvantages in this. Then you can migrate your data from the old to the new pool. For backup, I would set up another pc, put in the old pool and use it only for that. So you can loose 1 disk in you main array and everyhing is fine. If you loose 2 you will still have your backup and the probability that there is also an issure, is really low in my eyes.
But I do not see any possibility to extend your actual pool.

If I understand something wrong, please correct me ;)

 

[Fyodor]

Hello everyone! Sorry for this brake, had to be out of home server issues for a while. Running Badblocks for all 4 HDDs took veeery long time, about a week for 2 drives out of 4. The report is pending as I'm not at that server right now. But I need an advice including an issue that IceBoosteR has replied in his last message above:

Since I'm out of recommended spec in several aspects based on many recommendations I've red here and I've decided I need to take data protection to new level, I've found a used server seller company that I currently negotiate two assemblies available:

1) SuperMicro X7DBU / 2 x Xeon E5410 / 2,333 GHz / 32 GB Kingston KVR667D2D4F5/4G / 3ware SAS/SATA 9690SA-8I / 16 x 3,5" slots / 2 ports Ethernet / 2 power supplies / iLo (IPMI) / 3U chassis = $665

and

2) SuperMicro X8DTU-F / 2 x Xeon E5520 / 2,27 GHz / 8 GB Hynix HMT151R7BFR4C-G7 / 4 x 3,5" slots / 2 ports Ethernet / 1 power supply / iLo (IPMI) / 1U chassis = $415

First spec is attractive as it has plenty of HDD slots (I currently have 5 x 500 GB and 4 x 3 TB discs) - more than I need, but it is what these guys have to offer. This option might be useful in case if instead of having two separate machines as main array (SuperMicro based) and backup array (current conventional Gigabyte based) it would be practical to fit everything into one 3U case, but arrange HDDs into separate individual ZPools that would serve as main array and backup array. And this all will be covered by ECC memory, IPMI capability, etc., so I just scrap my old stuff. I'm not sure what power supplies are installed in this case, but may be up to 1200W, so I wonder if my electricity bill won't kill me. I hope the power consumed is slightly dependent on power unit size, but mostly dependent on number of devices to power and run/idle approach.

Second spec is only choosen to consider because it is the only X8 (DDR3) spec these guys have, all the rest is X7. If I'm not mistaken it was not recommended to go below DDR3 spec, while I currently have non-ECC system and DDR2-ECC would make an improvement. If I take this option than, just like IceBoosteR recommends, I move my 3 TB HDDs to this case, make RAIDZ1 pool and migrate entire data while converting my old system into backup. Only comment is that probably main 3 TB RAIDZ1 array will provide for lot more space than old backup machine can accomodate.

To be honest, I feel like someone driving cheap Ford Escape all his life and then being offered a Lamborghini... I will stop at seller's office tomorrow to take a look at both machines and will have few days to think it over and make decision, would be great to hear your advice. Thanks.

 

[Stux]

FWIW, if some drives take significantly longer to run bad blocks it could indicate a problem with those drives. Ie, they're having trouble reading/writing.

After running badblocks you should do a long smart test and see if any new issues appear.

A faulty drive which still works is insidious and can lead to very hard to diagnose performance problems

 

[Fyodor]

Thanks Stux, sure it is important. I was planning to run long smart test nearest days and report here. Similar to badblocks, Can I start running smart test simultaneously for all 4 drives?

 

[SweetAndLow]

Hello everyone! Sorry for this brake, had to be out of home server issues for a while. Running Badblocks for all 4 HDDs took veeery long time, about a week for 2 drives out of 4. The report is pending as I'm not at that server right now. But I need an advice including an issue that IceBoosteR has replied in his last message above:

Since I'm out of recommended spec in several aspects based on many recommendations I've red here and I've decided I need to take data protection to new level, I've found a used server seller company that I currently negotiate two assemblies available:

1) SuperMicro X7DBU / 2 x Xeon E5410 / 2,333 GHz / 32 GB Kingston KVR667D2D4F5/4G / 3ware SAS/SATA 9690SA-8I / 16 x 3,5" slots / 2 ports Ethernet / 2 power supplies / iLo (IPMI) / 3U chassis = $665

and

2) SuperMicro X8DTU-F / 2 x Xeon E5520 / 2,27 GHz / 8 GB Hynix HMT151R7BFR4C-G7 / 4 x 3,5" slots / 2 ports Ethernet / 1 power supply / iLo (IPMI) / 1U chassis = $415

First spec is attractive as it has plenty of HDD slots (I currently have 5 x 500 GB and 4 x 3 TB discs) - more than I need, but it is what these guys have to offer. This option might be useful in case if instead of having two separate machines as main array (SuperMicro based) and backup array (current conventional Gigabyte based) it would be practical to fit everything into one 3U case, but arrange HDDs into separate individual ZPools that would serve as main array and backup array. And this all will be covered by ECC memory, IPMI capability, etc., so I just scrap my old stuff. I'm not sure what power supplies are installed in this case, but may be up to 1200W, so I wonder if my electricity bill won't kill me. I hope the power consumed is slightly dependent on power unit size, but mostly dependent on number of devices to power and run/idle approach.

Second spec is only choosen to consider because it is the only X8 (DDR3) spec these guys have, all the rest is X7. If I'm not mistaken it was not recommended to go below DDR3 spec, while I currently have non-ECC system and DDR2-ECC would make an improvement. If I take this option than, just like IceBoosteR recommends, I move my 3 TB HDDs to this case, make RAIDZ1 pool and migrate entire data while converting my old system into backup. Only comment is that probably main 3 TB RAIDZ1 array will provide for lot more space than old backup machine can accomodate.

To be honest, I feel like someone driving cheap Ford Escape all his life and then being offered a Lamborghini... I will stop at seller's office tomorrow to take a look at both machines and will have few days to think it over and make decision, would be great to hear your advice. Thanks.

Badblock can be run in all drives at the same time. Save thing goes for smart tests.

Never go with a X7 system. Way to old. X8 are ok but I would not waste my money there either. C9 is a better option if you can.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

 

[Fyodor]

OK, got it! Have declined both options. Instead found X10SLM-F / E3-1230v3 system with 4 GB RAM onboard, two extra HDDs and consumer type desk-top case. I will need to add RAM immediately to at least match 8 GB minimum. With this option I can either take two machines main/backup approach and 4 x 3TB HDDs will go to new system to serve as main array, or fit everything into current large Thermaltake ATX case with custom added extra fan and arrange two separate pools for main storage and backup at the same platform. Last choice seems better/easier for home use, but I may be wrong in this. Two HDDs are 500 GB each, so can expand my current 5 x 500 GB machine that is going to be backup. Here is the plan! Is that good enough?

 

[SweetAndLow]

What is the use case for this system? I like the newer x10 system. What power supply?

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

 

[Fyodor]

This is how X10 systems is offered for sales: https://www.avito.ru/moskva/nastoln...lok_supermicro_x10slm-fxeon_e3-1230_939919058

And this is my current case I can try to fit it into: http://www.thermaltake.com/products-model.aspx?id=C_00000088 with power supply https://www.aerocool.com.tw/en/psu/kcas/kcas-800w

 

[Fyodor]

The seller is IT employee who was putting this machine together for his home use, but than decided it is not needed.

 

[Dice]

OK, got it! Have declined both options. Instead found X10SLM-F / E3-1230v3 system with 4 GB RAM onboard, two extra HDDs and consumer type desk-top case. I will need to add RAM immediately to at least match 8 GB minimum. With this option I can either take two machines main/backup approach and 4 x 3TB HDDs will go to new system to serve as main array, or fit everything into current large Thermaltake ATX case with custom added extra fan and arrange two separate pools for main storage and backup at the same platform. Last choice seems better/easier for home use, but I may be wrong in this. Two HDDs are 500 GB each, so can expand my current 5 x 500 GB machine that is going to be backup. Here is the plan! Is that good enough?

System hardware is fine, cpu and mobo are tried and tested. I'm a little conservative in any positive statements regarding that PSU in the russian link.
I like your approach to setting up 2 systems, main/backup.
Regarding RaidZ setups, I'd probably run raidz2 on the older drives... even if they are small and dandy, I'd expect them to be quite fragile.
On the new drives, I personally think raidz2 should not be used with less than 6 drives due to the loss in space efficiency.
Remember, you cannot expand a pool with 1x vdev : raidz2 4 drives ... to 1x vdev : raidz2 6 drives.
However, you can add a second vdev to make it 2x vdev : raidz2 4 drives = 8 drives total when you need additional capacity.

 

[Fyodor]

Thank you for comments, Dice. Yes, PSU is consumer type. I think I will stay with it until decide replace entire case by 1U or 2U one. One question left: you say two separate machines for main/backup are better option than two separate volumes within one system. If I go with two separate volumes is that a lot worse scenario?