My Internet is awesome

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Arwen

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I am not referring to cities or in general. Yes, there was alot of corruption and profitiering at public expense.

But, are you are saying that my peice of land in the Rocky Mountains, (112 miles from Denver, CO), should have high speed Internet?

There are 10,000s of people living in the Colorado Rockies, but population density is so low, that the town my land is near has
677 people as of the 2000 census. Near by their are thousands of residents which use that town's Post Office. Some with 3 to
10 arce lots. To quote Wikipedia on that small town, (which may not be perfect, but this sounds reasonable);

The population density was 1.13 per square mile (1.81 per km²).​

This is what I mean about the U.S. being a large country. Cities are different. But we have 10s of millions of people in small towns,
or spread out. They should have at least low speed broadband Internet, (none available at present). But installing in Cities with
MUCH higher population density will be easier.

So my comment was related to these 3 things;
  • Size of country, (U.S. is LARGE, 4th largest)
  • Population, (U.S. is 3rd populous)
  • Population density, (U.S. is 182, coming out to 85 people per square mile, average)
 
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I am not referring to cities or in general. Yes, there was alot of corruption and profitiering at public expense.

But, are you are saying that my peice of land in the Rocky Mountains, (112 miles from Denver, CO), should have high speed Internet?

There are 10,000s of people living in the Colorado Rockies, but population density is so low, that the town my land is near has
677 people as of the 2000 census. Near by their are thousands of residents which use that town's Post Office. Some with 3 to
10 arce lots. To quote Wikipedia on that small town, (which may not be perfect, but this sounds reasonable);

The population density was 1.13 per square mile (1.81 per km²).​

This is what I mean about the U.S. being a large country. Cities are different. But we have 10s of millions of people in small towns,
or spread out. They should have at least low speed broadband Internet, (none available at present). But installing in Cities with
MUCH higher population density will be easier.

So my comment was related to these 3 things;
  • Size of country, (U.S. is LARGE, 4th largest)
  • Population, (U.S. is 3rd populous)
  • Population density, (U.S. is 182, coming out to 85 people per square mile, average)

Very nice. I mean very nice place you live , not that you are right.:p

What you are saying make sense , but is has nothing to do with reason why the internet here is so bad. The problem is not the vast landscape so they just couldn't keep up. Nothing is further from the truth.

In Chicago we have all the density you can ask for, you think we have Gigabit internet ?WE don't have it either so that disprove what you were saying. Fiber can run under my street for what I care and still can't even touch good internet.

Another way of saying this :
Water can run under your nose and you are still not allow to have a drop of it.


P.S. When there is a will , there is a way.
"The cable company" has the money to wire gigabit internet to the moon if they want it to.
 

Ericloewe

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"The cable company" has the money to wire gigabit internet to the moon if they want it to.
Not really, unless you suggest moving the moon into geosynchronous orbit.
 
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Not really, unless you suggest moving the moon into geosynchronous orbit.

I am exaggerating a little bit of course.:p
But the company I am referring to intentionally as "the cable company" without using it's name has grown to the point to be the biggest(richest) one in the world. They can buy one of these small countries that can afford to provide better internet for their customers. And that is not exaggeration.
 

jgreco

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In Chicago we have all the density you can ask for,

Chicago, huh... nice new 36 bay NAS, huh...

The-Grinch-Song-1.gif
 

jgreco

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But, are you are saying that my peice of land in the Rocky Mountains, (112 miles from Denver, CO), should have high speed Internet?

Are you on the public power grid? Do you have landline phone service? If so, then the answer is an unqualified EFF YEAH. There's a known path to bring you fiber or whatever.

At this point, the cellular companies are busy trying to fill in holes in their coverage map for cellular coverage, which is a fairly similar problem to fixed wireless, which is a less-expensive option for low density areas and could conceivably be used as an option in certain situations. The typical problem with fixed wireless is simply one of shared bandwidth, but even that is more acceptable than the big fat nothing many people have now.

And here's the thing. Even if you are so remote that you are generating your own power and you only get cell service when a plane flies overhead and bounces you a signal from fifty miles away, all this really indicates is that it hasn't bee commercially attractive to get you on-net. And, yes, cost is a thing. But that's why we established the Universal Service Fund for telephony, to bring phone service to those areas where it wasn't economically attractive for a for-profit company to do this on its own. There's even been some work done to extend USF to broadband, though I don't really know what the latest status is there. Plus, yes, you can already get Internet connectivity out in the sticks through satellite, so one way or another, this is going to happen.
 
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Chicago, huh... nice new 36 bay NAS, huh...

The-Grinch-Song-1.gif

Ha ha ha :smile:))))
I don't have it yet. Plus thieves don't look at the Computer stuff with the eyes of the geek neither understand the value of it. They won't know the difference between 100lbs scrap metal and awesome 847 chassis. It's a good thing these 2 kind of people don't mix.:smile:
 
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Chicago, huh... nice new 36 bay NAS, huh...

The-Grinch-Song-1.gif

Speaking of cool stuff for free. I just start to wonder where exactly is "Unix-land" ?:smile:))) You catch my drift ?
 

jgreco

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Ha ha ha :)))))
I don't have it yet. Plus thieves don't look at the Computer stuff with the eyes of the geek neither understand the value of it. They won't know the difference between 100lbs scrap metal and awesome 847 chassis. It's a good thing these 2 kind of people don't mix.:)

Never too early to make plans for gift-taking next Christmas. Look at my outfit.
 

jgreco

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Speaking of cool stuff for free. I just start to wonder where exactly is "Unix-land" ?:)))) You catch my drift ?

Near 'nuff. I'm in the Loop fairly often. Used to have a rack of gear down in the shadow of the Sears Tower too.
 
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Near 'nuff. I'm in the Loop fairly often. Used to have a rack of gear down in the shadow of the Sears Tower too.

Now it's called Willis Tower now(stupid idea to change the name you ask me). Is the gear still here ? Do you want to to go get it for you ?:smile:))
 

jgreco

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Not very many people call it the Willis Tower in my experience.

We closed the Chicago POP back in 2003 in part because it became apparent that the AADS NAP was effectively dead, and that larger Internet exchange facilities such as Equinix were the future. However, for the kinds of things we do, Equinix Chicago didn't make sense, so we ended up out in Ashburn (Washington D.C.).

level3.png

This is a map provided by Level(3) which is the closest thing to a representative map that I'm aware of. By the way that link can be a lot of fun, feel free to explore Level(3)'s network near you.

You'll notice that there's a huge amount of Internet-y stuff focused on the US east coast and in western Europe. A lot of content providers tended to favor these areas a decade ago, so that's where we went, and where we still are, primarily.
 
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That is interesting. It will take me some time before I respond to it. You din't tell me what you think about the title 2 reclassification , I would be interested to get your opinion on the question I posted in #39 ?
 

jgreco

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That is interesting. It will take me some time before I respond to it. You din't tell me what you think about the title 2 reclassification , I would be interested to get your opinion on the question I posted in #39 ?

Yeah, well, Title II is dated, and I'm not sure I favor relying on unilaterial forbearance by the FCC as a regulatory regime.

Part of this becomes a problem because it is so easy for each side to twist things.

For example, we really do want service providers to have the ability to filter certain things by default, such as SMTP connections to random machines, because as a practical matter we understand that there's a huge amount of abuse which originates in this way. Or to throw up a filter blocking :1433 the next time there's a widespread SQL server attack. These are generally good things. The problem is, we hear mealy-mouthed "protect mah netwohk" type talk from the likes of Stephenson who then use it to justify things like data rate caps and "fair share of the network." And it becomes difficult to see what shade of gray we're discussing.

I expect that a service provider might need to do things that actually protect its network. Back in 1994, one of our upstreams here was getting SATAN portscanned by another local service provider, and their "solution" was to null route them at the edge. I'm going to go so far as to say that was not an appropriate reaction, though I understand the sentiment. Regardless, I went and chewed out their CEO and got a pledge that they would never filter our pipe without permission or at least notification again. My expectation is that "Internet service" should be an attempt to provide access to as much of the Internet as is reasonably possible.

Lots of the current debate has been weasel-word twisted from realistic historical issues. "Fair share of the network" is a completely reasonable concept. Consumer grade connections are sold on the idea that they're oversubscribed, which means that there isn't enough bandwidth to supply full speed to all subscribers 24/7. This is part of what makes Internet access economical. However, what these companies are actually promoting as "reasonable" caps are a load of cow manure. Let me put it to you this way. 1 megabit per second over the period of one month is approximately 330GB of data transferred (depends on days, counting method, etc). So you want some fun? Let's do some math on AT&T's latest U-verse caps.

http://arstechnica.com/business/201...s-for-home-internet-and-steps-up-enforcement/

Let's say I order a U-verse 1Gbps connection. I'm allowed 1TB of data. If we work the math, that's about 3Mbps continuously for a month. Yay. I actually get to use 0.3% (that's zero-point-three percent) of my connection.

Now let me tell you a dirty little secret. Bandwidth is pretty cheap. It's been getting cheaper. Locally here, it's gone from $300/megabit down to about $1.50/megabit in the last ~15 years. In that same time, Internet speeds have increased, but Internet connection prices have also trended upwards. I'd say that you can now get about 3x the Internet per dollar spent that you could 15 years ago. You do the math.

And then let's do the math a different way. Those usage caps? Figure it out. If 330GB of data costs your service provider ~$1 or so, and Comcast is charging $10 for every extra 50GB, that's ~$65 for 350GB. That's quite the profit there.

You're not getting your fair share of the network. And the cable/telcos see the writing on the wall, so there isn't a huge amount of incentive for them to give you access to large amounts of data. They know that sooner or later they'll lose the lucrative things like telephony ($40/month?!? Really?!?!?!?!) and cable TV. So they're doing their best to screw it to Netflix and any other providers of those services. In part by making it impractical for you, the customer, to make heavy use of the services.

Further, companies such as AT-"mah-pipes"-&T aren't always focused on the issue of providing the service that their customers have paid for. When I pay a provider for Internet access, I expect to get Internet access, not access-to-those-providers-who-have-also-agreed-to-pay-a-premium-to-connect-to-AT&T. As a customer, *I* am paying for AT&T's pipes. AT&T doesn't get to insist that both sides of a connection must pay them, that leads to perverse results. Is AT&T going to degrade my connection to this web site because iXsystems hasn't paid AT&T for access? I mean, that's really where that sort of logic ends up. ISP's collect revenue from their customers in order to connect their customers to the Internet. I'm fine with that being on a best-effort basis, but attempting to extort large web portals for money is not "best-effort." And the problem is that we have seen the end users being held as hostages far too often in the various peering battles, so while I would personally prefer to keep the government and regulation out of it, we need someone who is big enough to scold the little children, and even spank them when necessary.

There will always be some practical realities involved in providing Internet service to end users, but what we're seeing in the market is mostly a load of self-serving crap. Local municipality-based broadband services, Google Fiber, and dedicated service providers like Sonic have no problems delivering uncapped services to end users. If all ISP's behaved like that, we probably wouldn't need to be worrying about Title II.
 

AVB

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Out here in the midst of nowhere where airmail is delivered by carrier pigeon, It's a good day when I hit 1meg for anything. I'm so depressed now :(
 

Ericloewe

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IP over carrier pigeon? Sounds better than some ISPs I've had.
 
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Out here in the midst of nowhere where airmail is delivered by carrier pigeon, It's a good day when I hit 1meg for anything. I'm so depressed now :(

Welcome to the club , buddy.:)

P.S. Awareness comes with depression and disappointment. But is the only path for change to make things better. The choose of red or blue pill and everyone has to make when get to this point.
 

Bidule0hm

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BigDave

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Awareness comes with depression and disappointment. But is the only path for change to make things better. The choose of red or blue pill and everyone has to make when get to this point.
In some cases, ignorance is bliss ;)
 
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