To APC or not to APC - 'tis a question (BR1500MS2 - good UPS or a firebomb waiting to go off?)

[CookieMonster]

Amazon is having a sale:

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B08GRY1...1edb60ea2d0325ecb310INT&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

and I just so happen to be thinking about buying a UPS for my TrueNAS home server build, but reviews are mixed for this supposedly top(ish?) of APC's _consumer_ line. Looked at the CyberPower equivalent (CP1500PFCLCD), but the reviews are mixed there as well -- about the same rating distribution for both brands:

- fire hazard
- some units actually catching fire or smoking
- foul smell
- high pitched noise

What's your opinion, folks? Should I go for it?

Also, Amazon is showing that this item is eligible for holiday return policy, but some reviewers mentioned that Amazon was refusing returns on this thing in the past because it's allgedly per Amazon cannot be shipped due to the "dangerous battery" (yet sending it to the customer is not an issue).

Did anyone have experience with this? I would appreciate any kind of perspective.

What UPS would you recommend? The hardware guide just says "APC" without any specifics IIRC.


P.S. I just learned that these consumer UPS are not real UPS because of the 10 ms gap between loss of power and UPS taking over (and that _real_ UPS are very expensive industrial units). Is that an issue for TrueNAS/Home server?

 

[jgreco]

What's your opinion, folks? Should I go for it?

Having worked with many dozens of APC units over the years, I am more or less brand loyal because there's less to know. I don't know anything about this particular APC UPS as I typically buy the higher end units.

- fire hazard
- some units actually catching fire or smoking
- foul smell
- high pitched noise

The foul smell is typically a battery gone bad. The high voltage electronics can sometimes be audible as a high pitched squeal to sensitive ears, usually only while the unit is inverting power.

Also, Amazon is showing that this item is eligible for holiday return policy, but some reviewers mentioned that Amazon was refusing returns on this thing in the past because it's allgedly per Amazon cannot be shipped due to the "dangerous battery" (yet sending it to the customer is not an issue).

About ten years ago, I had purchased an APC SMT750 deskside UPS for a PC application. Upon arrival, it didn't work. I contacted Amazon, who promptly ordered me a replacement and -- I kid you not -- told me to discard of the busted UPS myself. Taken aback a bit, I discussed this with the agent and pointed out that they were losing $500. I then got confirmation that I was free to do with the busted one as I pleased. So naturally I registered it for warranty with APC, had them fix the problem, and ended up with two UPS's for the price of one.

More recently I had noted that lots of battery-related gear on Amazon included a "non returnable" element in the description.

I looked at this and noticed that the return policy was described as "For the 2022 holiday season, returnable items purchased between October 11 and December 25, 2022 can be returned until January 31, 2023." This is a suspicious wording as it implies that there are nonreturnable items. I did not see anything I thought of as conclusive though.

The hardware guide just says "APC" without any specifics IIRC.

As a longtime user of APC products since the 1980's, I will note that they offer many sizes of units thru many product lines. I've personally or thru my businesses owned north of 100 units, mostly SmartUPS. The quality of many units manufactured during the 1990's was subpar, but most of my recent units in the last fifteen years have been anywhere from very satisfactory to absolutely awesome. That said, I know lots of people who have bought the CyberPower, etc., units as well. The important thing, APC or not, is to make certain that your particular UPS model is supported by NUT (the UNIX UPS software). I think you can do just fine on an inexpensive UPS. Be sure to buy a unit that is rated to handle like twice what you expect to require. Just my opinion.

P.S. I just learned that these consumer UPS are not real UPS because of the 10 ms gap between loss of power and UPS taking over (and that _real_ UPS are very expensive industrial units). Is that an issue for TrueNAS/Home server?

If you're talking the difference between a standby UPS and a double conversion UPS, that's bogus. I work out of multiple data centers and none of the UPS gear I've run into at major data centers (HUGE floorstanding systems) does that. A standby UPS is one that monitors utility power and switches to battery/inverter in about 3-5ms if there's a problem. This is suitable for most uses. A double conversion is one that converts AC to DC, and then DC back to AC, so that there is never a loss of power. However, you are talking about a consistent 10-15% loss in efficiency because of the double conversion step. Only the most sensitive workloads need this. You can definitely GET heavy duty double conversion UPS's, but mostly it is standby UPS's.

There is also the difference between cheap (square wave) UPS's and sine wave UPS's. Do go for sine wave. Many of these come as "line interactive" these days which can also do tricks like boosting power during a brownout.

A server with a properly sized power supply (see my article at https://www.truenas.com/community/threads/proper-power-supply-sizing-guidance.38811/ ) should have enough elbow room to cope with a short 10ms blip in the power. However, if your server *needs* 500W and you've used a 550W PSU, a blip might well cause a reset or crash of your server.

 

[Ericloewe]

As a sidenote, the ATX specification requires at least 16 ms of hold-up time at full load.

 

[CookieMonster]

Having worked with many dozens of APC units over the years, I am more or less brand loyal because there's less to know. I don't know anything about this particular APC UPS as I typically buy the higher end units.



The foul smell is typically a battery gone bad. The high voltage electronics can sometimes be audible as a high pitched squeal to sensitive ears, usually only while the unit is inverting power.



About ten years ago, I had purchased an APC SMT750 deskside UPS for a PC application. Upon arrival, it didn't work. I contacted Amazon, who promptly ordered me a replacement and -- I kid you not -- told me to discard of the busted UPS myself. Taken aback a bit, I discussed this with the agent and pointed out that they were losing $500. I then got confirmation that I was free to do with the busted one as I pleased. So naturally I registered it for warranty with APC, had them fix the problem, and ended up with two UPS's for the price of one.

More recently I had noted that lots of battery-related gear on Amazon included a "non returnable" element in the description.

I looked at this and noticed that the return policy was described as "For the 2022 holiday season, returnable items purchased between October 11 and December 25, 2022 can be returned until January 31, 2023." This is a suspicious wording as it implies that there are nonreturnable items. I did not see anything I thought of as conclusive though.



As a longtime user of APC products since the 1980's, I will note that they offer many sizes of units thru many product lines. I've personally or thru my businesses owned north of 100 units, mostly SmartUPS. The quality of many units manufactured during the 1990's was subpar, but most of my recent units in the last fifteen years have been anywhere from very satisfactory to absolutely awesome. That said, I know lots of people who have bought the CyberPower, etc., units as well. The important thing, APC or not, is to make certain that your particular UPS model is supported by NUT (the UNIX UPS software). I think you can do just fine on an inexpensive UPS. Be sure to buy a unit that is rated to handle like twice what you expect to require. Just my opinion.



If you're talking the difference between a standby UPS and a double conversion UPS, that's bogus. I work out of multiple data centers and none of the UPS gear I've run into at major data centers (HUGE floorstanding systems) does that. A standby UPS is one that monitors utility power and switches to battery/inverter in about 3-5ms if there's a problem. This is suitable for most uses. A double conversion is one that converts AC to DC, and then DC back to AC, so that there is never a loss of power. However, you are talking about a consistent 10-15% loss in efficiency because of the double conversion step. Only the most sensitive workloads need this. You can definitely GET heavy duty double conversion UPS's, but mostly it is standby UPS's.

There is also the difference between cheap (square wave) UPS's and sine wave UPS's. Do go for sine wave. Many of these come as "line interactive" these days which can also do tricks like boosting power during a brownout.

A server with a properly sized power supply (see my article at https://www.truenas.com/community/threads/proper-power-supply-sizing-guidance.38811/ ) should have enough elbow room to cope with a short 10ms blip in the power. However, if your server *needs* 500W and you've used a 550W PSU, a blip might well cause a reset or crash of your server.

Thank you... I decided to give it a shot. Although, I am not sure I would be comfortable leaving it unattended, especially long term -- like going on vacation.

Like I said, there are detailed reports of bpth APCs and CyberPower catching fire. E.g., I read Cyberpower cheaped out on adhesive in some models, like CP1500PFCLCD, where they used this yellow glue that becomes conductive as it ages and causes short circuit which causes fire.

APC, at least in previous revisions of their BR1500MS* that I bought, tend to throw F02 error and then catch fire due to, possibly, defective MOSFETs, per this reviewer, for example:

Check out this Amazon review of APC UPS 1500VA Sine Wave UPS Battery Backup, BR1500MS2 Backup Battery Power Supply, AVR, 10 Outlets, (2) USB Charger Ports

Get it if you like popcorn!

www.amazon.com

(But I also read similar reports elsewhere.)

Do you guys leave your APCs when you go on vacations on leave home?
I honestly would rather lose data due to power outage, than my home due to a fire!

 

[CookieMonster]

Do go for sine wave.

Apparently, these are not true sine wave either, despite what manufacturer says, but "stepped sine wave approximation" -- per reviewers. :(

 

[jgreco]

Do you guys leave your APCs when you go on vacations on leave home?

I might worry about the little residential grade doohickeys. The big ones are made of metal, lots of metal.