smaller DC powered Hardware suggestions/experiences? (OffGrid NAS solution)

[Offgrid]

We are looking for DIY Open Source NAS solutions, to set up a simple NAS to centralize our domestic data from the existing 3 Laptops to one RAID 2 Dual disc NAS (instead of regular backUps) with preferably (low powered) 2.5" discs.

We life offGrid afloat, with most appliances running on DC 24v and 12v (like the 12V router, the 24v kettle etc, or other DC voltage than 12/24 via DC stepUp/Down converters, as for example the Laptops) with only some very few appliances needing 220v AC, supplied via inverter when necessary.

To minimize drain on the battery bank useing a mains powered PC or server for the NAS (as mostly recommended in here) isn't an option, so the NAS should live on something DC powered, like a Mini PC / Thin Client / NetBook. The commonly known Shelf-Bought commercial NAS solutions, although DC powered, are not really an option due to being non-open-source, unreliable, restrictive and their sneaky coorporate nature.

We used the search function but didn't find to much relevant posts, hence this post. However we read that some people in the forum tried their hands on small platforms, as a HP Elitedesk 800 g2 i5 Quad, which is a DC powered Mini/ThinClient available for reasonable pricing, but without follow-up posts.

We are aware of the minimum requirements as 64bit and 8GB RAM, and have read "TrueNAS Community Hardware Guide / 2021-01 Edition Revision 2a" but are still unsure about possible connectivity of the RAID drives (do they NEED to be internal, or can they be external? most Minis/Thins have one internal and other drives are connected via USB.

The NAS will be shut down when not in use (as the router and everything else etc), so needs to be (st)able to boot up daily or so.

Does someone have either successful experience with low energy DC platforms, and can point towards it, or is it more or less not advised with the TrueNAS due to the requirements?

We have basic IT knowledge (setting up systems, software) but are not IT people (not working in the field nor is it our hobby) so sincere apologies upfront for misuse of technical terms or the unusual question per se.

 

[DigitalMinimalist]

There are some Mainboards with DC-in

Mainboards Mainboards mit CPU mit Stromanschlüsse: 1x DC-In Preisvergleich Geizhals Deutschland

Preisvergleich und Bewertungen für Mainboards Mainboards mit CPU mit Stromanschlüsse: 1x DC-In

geizhals.de

 

[danb35]

The commonly known Shelf-Bought commercial NAS solutions, although DC powered, are not really an option due to being non-open-source, unreliable, restrictive and their sneaky coorporate nature.

Many of the Intel-powered QNAP boxes can run TrueNAS, and that may be the most compact and energy-efficient solution available.

one RAID 2 Dual disc NAS (instead of regular backUps)

There's (effectively) no such thing as RAID 2, and RAID isn't a backup. If your data is important, suggest you rethink this strategy.

minimum requirements as 64bit and 8GB RAM

16 GB RAM, now.

still unsure about possible connectivity of the RAID drives (do they NEED to be internal, or can they be external?

They pretty much need to be internal. More accurately, you can use external SAS drives (connected via SAS) pretty safely, but USB-connected disks are strongly discouraged.

But really, if you want to run a computer on DC, that's simple enough to arrange with something like the PicoPSU:

PicoPSU-160-XT, 160watt (200watt peak) , 12V input DC-DC ATX Power Supply

picoPSU-160-XT is the toughest plug-in 12V ATX dc-dc power supply

www.mini-box.com

 

[Redcoat]

Many of the Intel-powered QNAP boxes can run TrueNAS, and that may be the most compact and energy-efficient solution available.

Welcome to the forums!

Use the search here for '"TrueNAS on QNAP" and find many threads discussing the topic.

Good luck!

 

[Arwen]

Be careful with 2.5" hard drives. You can generally get higher capacity in 2.5" spinning rust, than cost effective 2.5" SSDs. But, many of the higher capacity 2.5" hard drives use SMR technology, which does not work well, (or at times at all), with ZFS.

You did not mention the amount of storage you were looking at. Please do, that affects what we can suggest.

Running TrueNAS on tiny or DC only servers is not all that common, so you may run into corner cases where TrueNAS or ZFS does not work well.

My current desktop is a miniature PC, with 2 x 2.5" SATA slots, 2 x 2280 NVMe slots, with AMD Ryzen processor and laptop type DC power supply. It has 2 x SO-DIMM slots, which can take 2 x 16GB SO-DIMMs. But, it's designed as a desktop. And while I do use ZFS for both my Linux OS and a second storage pool, I don't know if I would attempt to run TrueNAS on it. But then again, I don't live on a boat...

 

[Constantin]

A DC-DC power supply specifically designed for use in a car is definitely what you want - the on-board 24VDC main bus will feature all sorts of spikes even if its normally detached from your starter bank - think refrigerators, inverter systems, and so on. I have been very happy with my purchases from mini-box.com.

I second staying away from new spinning 2.5" drives since most, if not about all of them use SMR. That option adds 20% to the capacity of drives but also makes them fundamentally incompatible with ZFS because they use Device-Managed SMR. That in turn gives TrueNAS zero insight into what is going on in the drive re: flushing the CMR cache to SMR sector, resulting in TrueNAS wondering if the drive has gone bad. Sustained write performance with SMR (especially for resilver operations) is also terrible. Lastly, given how SMR drives rely on downtime to pursue housekeeping, your intended use case (server only on intermittently) is likely especially problematic.

Everything on a boat is more expensive... if it were my money pit in the water, I'd use SSDs in a three-way mirror. Fast, energy-efficient, and reasonably redundant. Use a external drive on occasion to back up and put it in a tight tin box (faraday cage) for long passages, just like cell phones and other gear with no offshore function. Some of the smaller motherboards out there might even be optimized around using multiple NVME sticks. I'd look into that for volume and size needs. Good luck!

 

[awasb]

If it should just be a NAS with ZFS ...

Linksammlung | Alles ohne Windows

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[Constantin]

I’m not sure how well a RPi will survive on a boat nor whether I’d like to run ZFS from a command line on a architecture that lacks ECC RAM and which relies on USB for data transfer.

It could work just fine or it could crash spectacularly as my Debian TimeMachine RPi host did.

 

[awasb]

In my camper it works just fine on a solar powered battery pack. (Mainly for "photo syncs". Pun intended. ) On a boat I'd be more concerned about the case/housing and the size, than the RAM error correction (especially when shut down daily and put aside).

 

[elorimer]

You might think about a less robust solution, perhaps a DS120j one SSD disk wired into the 12v line, with backups to another SSD disk and into the cloud. Not sure what kind of data you have or your typical internet connection. I can't see hard disks on a boat because of the shocks, and at under 10w it might be doable. You saved that much by switching your anchor light to LED, yes?

 

[sretalla]

If it should just be a NAS with ZFS ...

NAS with ZFS on Raspberry Pi 4

I applaud the suggestion as a fit for the use-case of the OP.

But I have some notes:

That idea is great in terms of likelihood of running on battery/DC power for a good amount of time.

I think the project's originators haven't put the time into understanding ZFS to the extent where they will discover that recommending the 2 or 4GB models of RasPi4 is a terrible idea and that the 8GB option is the starting point if you want reliable ZFS. (perfectly good workaround to this... get the 8GB model)

Obviously, the caveats around drives (and connecting them via a USB case with what is probably a port multiplier inside) will also introduce risks of its own.

Maybe using SSDs would help (both with lower power requirements and with more generally avoiding things like SMR).

Using USB isn't excellent for ZFS, so plan to have controller failures and maybe replace the external enclosures or the Pi periodically (at least once each 6 months)... the drives will probably be fine to just move to new connected hardware for some time though.

Overall, you can probably get away with it if you're careful and consider the risks you're taking.

 

[awasb]

Well, one could eliminate the risk of USB ...

Wiretrustee – Secure Private Networks Made Simple

sata.wiretrustee.com

But for my demands it was overkill. It's neither the company's books, that get stored, nor my credit agreements. (I use a single Samsung Pro SSD as storage device.)

 

[Patrick M. Hausen]

Supermicro has got some server grade gear in small cases with DC input. For example I run a Xeon-D in a CSE-300. You can fit 1 2.5" SATA SSD and in total 3x M.2 NVME SSDs in there. With SSD sizes of 2 and 4 TB today that makes a nice NVMe backed RAIDZ1 with the small SATA SSD for booting ...

 

[Constantin]

That’s a great compact case!

My only fear is salt air if this is a ocean-going boat. For ocean applications, I’d look for something passively cooled and hermetically sealed. Then your only issue is occasionally applying deoxit to the various connectors to deal with corrosion.

 

[Offgrid]

But really, if you want to run a computer on DC, that's simple enough to arrange with something like the PicoPSU:

PicoPSU-160-XT, 160watt (200watt peak) , 12V input DC-DC ATX Power Supply

picoPSU-160-XT is the toughest plug-in 12V ATX dc-dc power supply

www.mini-box.com

Thanks Dan, didn't know about picoPSU - great such thing exists!

 

[Offgrid]

You might think about a less robust solution, perhaps a DS120j one SSD disk wired into the 12v line, with backups to another SSD disk and into the cloud.

Things like a DS120j / Synology I wanted to avoid, hence we found TrueNas/openSource solutions.

Not sure what kind of data you have or your typical internet connection.

just the regular mobile broadband, powered and sitting from/in the 12v router, distributed via network cables and occasionally Wireless.

I can't see hard disks on a boat because of the shocks, and at under 10w it might be doable.

Not many shocks, thats more a vanlife thing - the concern here is more the salty air over time, hence I thought the 2.5" seem to be more enclosed/smaller/compact (the laptops didnt have HDD errors since years)

You saved that much by switching your anchor light to LED, yes?

ha, yes :) Blessed were the days without electronics, just "electrics"

 

[Offgrid]

Thank you all for the constructive input - plenty to contemplate and ponder about, Thanks!

 

[danb35]

If it should just be a NAS with ZFS ...

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It's a nice idea, but for the already-noted problem that storage over USB isn't ideal. But it made me think of the Odroid SBCs. This one has 8 GB of RAM, one NVMe port, and one native SATA port, for US$90, considerably less than you'd pay for a CM4 with 8 GB today (regular Pi4s with 8 GB just aren't available):

ODROID-M1 with 8GByte RAM – ODROID

www.hardkernel.com

The HC4 might be a better solution, with two onboard SATA ports for US$73:

ODROID-HC4 – ODROID

www.hardkernel.com

As long as 64-bit Ubuntu will run on them, the installation you link to should work on them, perhaps with slight alterations.

 

[ChrisRJ]

Things like a DS120j / Synology I wanted to avoid, hence we found TrueNas/openSource solutions.

What are your reasons for this approach? This will help us to give better recommendations.