Simplified management

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ghostwolf59

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The installation of plugins needs to be simpler - the permission issue is a pain on occasion the the intricate order of events needs to be made a lot simpler.
You should not have to jexec into jail and manually setup folders and permission - this ought to be made a lot simpler
It ought to be as simple as
1. intall plugin
2. define share
3. point share to plugin (done!)
You could make it even simpler where the plugin installation prompts you to point to existing shares or sets them up during the setup/installation process.

Disk management is confusion at times - Exactly what is the point of being forced to start freenas in a single user mode before being able to run a fsck with an update option.
If this is not allowed then freenas should not allow the -y option when booted in normal mode.

That's my 2c worth on this
 

cyberjock

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Couple of things...

Why would you want to limit yourself to shares? By doing that you are adding a lot of overhead in the event your plugins do a lot of reading and writing(especially Samba which is single threaded). Personally, I find mountpoints to be easy to setup and manage(and probably the most reasonable solution to getting information into and out of the jail). And to be completely honest, I think(although I haven't tried this) you could use cifs or nfs from inside the jail just by mounting stuff from the CLI.

Permissions have been and will always be a major hurdle for those that aren't completely familiar and experienced with how FreeBSD does permissions. It's different from what most people are used to(Windows Permissions).

As for the single user mode, that's not a FreeNAS issue. It's actually how FreeBSD works. I had an issue with single user mode and fsck before and the best information I can find is that its something that pretty much will never change because of how the UFS file system works. The expectation is that you'd manage your FreeBSD based system properly and use appropriate backup power sources(UPS, backup generator, etc) to allow a system to perform a proper shutdown in case of a sustained loss of power. Nobody in their right mind should be running a FreeBSD based system without a UPS. It's mentioned in the FreeNAS manual, and can be quite damaging to all file systems out there(mind you some can handle the corruption better/differently than others). The reasoning behind running single user mode is to ensure that when you are checking a file system for errors there aren't any changes being made to the file system that would appear to be corruption when there is none. Linux used to have the same problem with ext2 and ext3 if I remember correctly.
 

ghostwolf59

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Mar 2, 2013
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165
Couple of things...

Why would you want to limit yourself to shares? By doing that you are adding a lot of overhead in the event your plugins do a lot of reading and writing(especially Samba which is single threaded). Personally, I find mountpoints to be easy to setup and manage(and probably the most reasonable solution to getting information into and out of the jail). And to be completely honest, I think(although I haven't tried this) you could use cifs or nfs from inside the jail just by mounting stuff from the CLI.

I don't think I am limiting myself (or others) by suggesting a simpler more straight forward setup process - if there is a case for alternatives then this could just as easy be managed by a few prompts - To be locked down (what I see as) unnecessary sequence of events that not is trapped, reported on or warned upon I can see many many (many) novice users attempting to setup and manage a freeNAS box - where they keep run into issues that ought to be fairly simple to resolve by making the installation more user friendly.

The issues with plugins (at least the more common one) could be made simpler - Not sure what the "limitation of using shares" is all about considering that the recommendations seem to be to use just that.

Couple of things...
Permissions have been and will always be a major hurdle for those that aren't completely familiar and experienced with how FreeBSD does permissions. It's different from what most people are used to(Windows Permissions).

As for the single user mode, that's not a FreeNAS issue. It's actually how FreeBSD works. I had an issue with single user mode and fsck before and the best information I can find is that its something that pretty much will never change because of how the UFS file system works. The expectation is that you'd manage your FreeBSD based system properly and use appropriate backup power sources(UPS, backup generator, etc) to allow a system to perform a proper shutdown in case of a sustained loss of power. Nobody in their right mind should be running a FreeBSD based system without a UPS. It's mentioned in the FreeNAS manual, and can be quite damaging to all file systems out there(mind you some can handle the corruption better/differently than others). The reasoning behind running single user mode is to ensure that when you are checking a file system for errors there aren't any changes being made to the file system that would appear to be corruption when there is none. Linux used to have the same problem with ext2 and ext3 if I remember correctly.
[/quote]


The fsck comment was clearly based on my particular needs - but why not offer a feature that would lock the device in a single user mode if/when you need to do a fsck with update - In short my comments were all based on my own experience and the traps you tend to fall into - if this falls onto def ears then I guess we just have to continue biting the bullet and learn by our mistakes :)

cheers
 

cyberjock

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I'm still not understanding why you think shares would be easier to set up. As I said before, you could easily use the CLI in the jail to use shares right now. The real killer would be the performance penalty of going that route. Setup really shouldn't factor into designing a server as you should only need to set it up once. On the other hand the performance matters ALOT more since it will be your limiting factor for as long as you own the server. In short, a little inconvenience during setup <<< performance of your server. This is one of the reasons why FreeBSD does most of its work from the CLI and not some prettied up user interface like Windows. Big picture though, I don't really see how shares would ever be better than the current mountpoints. Mountpoints are pretty straightforward. You chose the folder you want to pass to the jail and where to put it in the jail. FreeNAS really isn't designed for the most novice of users. Its designed to allow some of the more novice users get into and enjoy some of the performance and reliability benefits of FreeBSD without having to spend 2 years learning how to use FreeBSD from the command line.

As for the single user mode, I'm still a little confused as to what you are asking for. The whole purpose for single user mode is to allow you to troubleshoot/repair a server that is having issues. The times that you'd need to be in single user mode are typically when you(the admin) has screwed up and either made a mistake in software causing the system to be unusable or the server encountered a condition you didn't plan sufficiently for(for instance, a loss of power with no UPS). There's a couple of other situations, but you aren't likely to encounter those typically.

Many of the more powerful OSes don't make the decision to run a file system check(like what windows does on bootup sometimes) but leaves you, the admin, to make the decision with how to proceed. If the system is encountering a hardware failure causing reboots and then auto-triggering a file system check you don't want a server to continually reboot, auto-run a file system check, then come back online before a rinse and repeat all weekend. You'd certainly have a useless server by the end of the weekend. You'd instead want the server to keep itself offline and let you make the appropriate choice as to what to do and when. You'll find that many aspects of FreeBSD are designed to not be automatic when they could have been because the thought process is that the administrator should be the one making big choices and not some algorithm that might inappropriately think something needs to be fixed that isn't actually broken. In all honesty, I consider it very bad taste for Windows to automatically run a chkdsk when it thinks there is a problem. What happens if you have corrupted files? What do you do now since its "corrected" the deficiency without your option to not do the repair? And what files were corrupted? FreeBSD simply decides to make you monitor anything and everything that could be potentially devastating to your data. I think that the single user mode thing is something where you're going to have to swallow the bullet and accept it for what it is. The thought process isn't likely to change anytime soon, if ever.

I've done some really nasty things to FreeNAS in a VM and on real hardware, and I haven't had to go to single user mode yet. Mostly, I'm assuming that's because FreeNAS keeps the boot drive in read-only mode most of the time.
 

Travis82

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Jul 13, 2013
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I don't see what is so hard about setting up the cifs shares? Make a directory give it permissions or a set and done. Multi account Hell yes, how many of you want to have some of your kids wife friends.. etc.. erasing your media library in xbmc or whatever you use in accident cuz they pushed the wrong button on the remote?
The only thing i can agree with from the op's topic is plugins could be smoother to install and configure but that will come with time when FreeNas get's it speed up to par and hardware and drivers smoothed out.

OP: If you want an easier nas to work with, go buy a drobo or some piece of sh** storage box like Synology or Akitio that you can setup easily but will most likely lose data time to time cuz they have Nic and controller issues a bit.

Also as Cyberjock pointed out "The real killer would be the performance penalty of going that route. Setup really shouldn't factor into designing a server as you should only need to set it up once"

If you guys can't setup basic shares easily what in the hell are you doing installing an operating system you are not familiar with?
 
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