Ramdisk as zil for better write?

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datnus

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jgreco

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Any persistent (power-protected) RAMdisk product which has a FreeBSD device driver and presents itself as conventional storage to the OS would be likely to be helpful. For ZFS, it is the latency that is most important, followed by bandwidth sufficient to meet your target. A SSD device that sits on the far end of a SATA-II connection, for example, is less preferable because there's considerable latency associated with the serialization and round trip through the HBA and SSD controller. A device that sits directly on the PCIe (or in the case of the NVvault, on the system's memory channels) will have substantially lower latency.

Unfortunately, a device such as the NVvault would require a device driver of some sort, which I'm guessing does not exist for FreeBSD. Other companies such as Fusion-I/O do have their own proprietary FreeBSD driver, but are in a category I consider to be "too expensive."
 

datnus

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Fusion Io is too expensive.
Any help on choosing a supported ramdisk on freenas is appreciated.

I will research around.
 

cyberjock

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I have several of the Acard ANS-9010 and ANS-9010B,but both of those are 5.25" slots, so depending on your case you might not be able to "fit" one in your machine.
 

datnus

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ZFS also have inline compression, use txg to have better sequential write all random writes every 5 seconds...
 

cyberjock

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I don't really get how Nimble with similar hardware and architecture could get 25k random IOPS.
http://vstorage.wordpress.com/2013/05/21/what-makes-up-a-nimble-storage-array/

While my server (with SSD, faster HDDs and same number of HDDs) barely get 500 random IOPS.
At least, 10k IOPS is still a dream.

Similar is not the same. And 1 small component can have a drastic change in performance, in either direction.

Add an overly big L2ARC that consumes all of your system RAM and you can see a situation where you add hardware and performance actually decreases.

Add a ZIL and you can see sync write performance increase significantly.

So yeah, similar is NOT equal to the same. ;)
 

datnus

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But I believe, even a proper size Zil/L2arc can't make the IOPS increase from 500 to 25k IOPS :(
 

jgreco

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But I believe, even a proper size Zil/L2arc can't make the IOPS increase from 500 to 25k IOPS :(

Why not?

I would think that especially with something like that nvvault DIMM, sync write I/O could be made to fly. Increasing read IOPS through additional ARC/L2ARC can easily be an order-of-magnitude deal.

Of course, the biggest trick is to start with a sane pool design. RAIDZ limits the IOPS of a vdev to approximately what a single disk is capable of. Using striped mirrors ought to be lots faster.
 

datnus

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Nimble uses 15 HDDs 7200rpm RAID 6.
I believe the IOPS of RAID 6 is similarto RAIDZ2.

Mirror would increase read IOPS, not write,right?
 

jgreco

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In the ZFS model, the average IOPS of a vdev closely resembles that of the slowest member device. With other RAID implementations, there can be many other factors, because many hardware options are focused on getting a lot of performance out of a single RAID5 or RAID6 group. Part of the strategy for ZFS was not to worry as much about that; the system was really designed for large storage servers, and environments where RAIDZ was really going to be used for nearline storage applications rather than high performance. And RAIDZ can be made much faster by the use of small RAIDZ vdevs that are then striped at the pool level. The design considerations for ZFS are really targeted at systems with dozens of drives, Sun Thumper style.

I don't know what Nimble is actually doing behind the scenes as far as storage, but there are lots of places to optimize if you are offering a product like that. ZFS suffers because it has to try to be a generalized solution. That means that some options that might be available to the Nimble designers are not things that ZFS's designers could rely on.

Reads from mirrors can potentially fulfill the read from either mirror drive, yes.

With ZFS, while we like to call it "RAIDZ", what is actually happening is more of a stripe, where blocks are written followed by a parity block (or two or three for Z2, Z3). This basically causes the disks in the vdev to operate in a seek-synchronous manner, and so the slowest disk becomes the controlling concern for speed. Does that make sense?

With a mirror, there should be an advantage in that the data can be written out in parallel to both disks, plus the lack of needing to write that parity block. However, you can also have multiple vdevs, which is the natural configuration if you have four or more drives, and at that point you should note that each vdev can be busy with a separate I/O operation. So writes should be faster as well.

Since ARC plus an L2ARC will tend to be efficient at caching often-read content, that works in favor of a properly sized ZFS system. It probably doesn't do much for benchmark results, unless you design a benchmark that takes the behaviour of L2ARC into account.
 

cyberjock

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Nimble uses 15 HDDs 7200rpm RAID 6.
I believe the IOPS of RAID 6 is similarto RAIDZ2.

RAID6 is only "like" RAIDZ2 in that you have protection from 2 disk failure. In all of the other ways that matter ZFS is not like RAID. ZFS has variable sized stripes while RAID is set when the RAID volume is created. ZFS also wastes alot of "slack" space when you do large numbers of small files and other things. Failures of one stripe won't generally kill ZFS where failure of a stripe in RAID can kill the entire array.

Just look at https://bugs.freenas.org/issues/2383. A zvol with 100GB of data can take up 2.31TB(yes, TB and not GB) of actual disk space because of 512b block size. You'll never see that kind of problem with ext4 or NTFS. The reason for the disparity is because of how ZFS works.

So no, not the same at all except in the biggest of pictures. If you don't work in IT you could probably say RAID6 = RAIDZ2. But for anyone in IT and anyone trying to manage a server, they are night and day difference.

Mirror would increase read IOPS, not write,right?

Mirrors increase read and write IOPS(and naturally potential throughput).

So, starting to understand that ZFS is far far more complex than you thought? LOL.
 
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