New? Or Old? What's more efficient? AMD Build

Hafnernuss

Dabbler
Joined
Nov 9, 2020
Messages
14
Hi!

I have around 3k (€, location is Austria, Europe) to spend on my server/IT environment.

Currently I have an old AMD Athlon from mid 2010 running plain ubuntu and a bunch of differently sized (and aged) disks ranging from 2-8TB. It's just a JBOD that provides access via NFS to the local network. Fortunately, none of the disks have failed yet.
Specs:

Athlon II X2 250: 2x3Ghz
4GB Non ECC DDR3 RAM

I suspect this system would be too slow/old for a ZFS, right?
Thats what I thought! I came up with the following:

CPU: Ryzen 5 3600 (100-100000031BOX)
RAM: Samsung 32GB ECC DDR4 RAM (M391A4G43MB1-CTD)
MB: ASRock Rack X570D4U-2L2T
HBA: Broadcom SAS 9300-8i (H5-25573-00/LSI00344)
PSU: Seasonic 500W (SS-500L1U) (not exactly this, but clouse enough)
Disks: 6x WD Ultrastar DC HC330 10TB (WUS721010AL5204/0B42258)

And a small SSD for the system, no ZIL/SLOG planned.

I want to use the WDs for a raid-z2 as a storage for mainly movies, photos and other rather large files. Mainly read, the occasional write and as far as I can tell definitly not with dedup enabled (Since there wont be much to dedup like whole backups from other disks).

Would this system be overpowered? I've read around, and although Intel seems to be preferred by the majority of people, AMD seems to run fine.

Since I do not want to spend much more than 3k and also need a new main pc (development machine), I thought about buying a new machine and use the old one for TrueNAS.

Disks would be the same as above (The WD HC330s), strap in the HBA and PSU.
The rest of the old machine:

MB Asus Crosshair IV Formula (890FX Chipset, max 16GB Ram, ECC Support) Sorry, I could not find a link for this anymore.
CPU: AMD FX8350 (8x4Ghz)
RAM: Some Generic Kingston HyperX DDR3 1600 non-ECC sticks

Would this performance wise be enough? Maybe swap out the memory for some ECC sticks? Since 16GB is the maximum amount I can put on this board, is this still enough (no ZIL/SLOG/dedup)?

Im thankful for any advices you may have ;)
 

gth871r

Dabbler
Joined
Dec 1, 2019
Messages
15
About a year ago I got a stupid deal on a Ryzen 2700 with motherboard. I built a Freenas system around it and have a similar use case to yours, it's mostly an archive for my media library and doesn't service more than a user or, at most 2, at a time. It's gross overkill but the price was right, so why not? It's been fine. The only AMD issue is that I'm a little skeptical that my cpu temperature is being recorded accurately* but I'm not sure and I'm given to understand that's improved in TrueNas 12.

*I find it hard to get the CPU over 35C which might be accurate but I'm skeptical.
 

ThreeDee

Guru
Joined
Jun 13, 2013
Messages
698
If you want inexpensive home server box with fairly good performance .. I got cpu and motherboard in sig with 32GB of ECC DDR3 RDIMMs (quad channel so almost on par with DDR4) for $125. Sold the 32GB kit and bought a 64GB kit for $70'ish off of ebay. DDR3 ECC RDIMM's are pretty cheap.. bought a cheap NVMe SSD drive for boot and cheap HBA controller for $25. (all in sig)

Not for everyone, but I bought used drives for about $10 a TB .. I run up to 8 users at a time streaming off of my plex jail.
 

Inxsible

Guru
Joined
Aug 14, 2017
Messages
1,123
@Hafnernuss for your use case, the Ryzen 5 build is gross overkill. I like to build machines such that they are being fully utilized -- not working at 1/100th their capacity

I would go for an older generation build -- even if you buy new(since you are in Austria), I am sure you'd still find brand new X9 based boards for much cheaper than the newer Ryzen boards or the equivalent Intel boards. Another option is to buy from good sellers on ebay who ship internationally. That might still be cheaper than buying new components in your country. Yes, the shipping might take a bit longer, but if you can wait, you can have a pretty decent server build for pennies on the dollar. You could probably build the TrueNAS server and the development desktop both for under your 3K budget.

I have bought and built many a server/desktop machines with parts bought off of ebay and I have yet to return any component that I bought. I do thoroughly test the components nonetheless.
 
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Hafnernuss

Dabbler
Joined
Nov 9, 2020
Messages
14
Hey,
thanks for all the input. I suspected that this would be too much.
Buying from eaby is a mixed bag (here). International shipping is often very expensive, around 30-50 bucks. If you think RAM, thats often more cost for shipping than for the sticks themselves. But if a good deal comes along, why not. I have no problem using used parts (except for HDDs, thats really not something I would like to risk).

But then again, if I buy a new main rig, I have said parts (the Crosshair V Formula) and an FX-8350 (8x40Ghz!) flying around. To be honest, for everyday desktop use, the cpu really quite cuts it! So I think maybe it's also more than good enough for a FreeNas build? I'm really not a fan of throwing 100% working hardware into the trash if I can get some use out of it. Will FreeNas perform good enough with 16GB of ECC ram? Im a bit confused here, as some people have stated that 8GB is the recommended minimum, others say they need 1GB/TB of net storage (but I guess thats with dedup, right?)

Selling the FX8350 with the mainboard is also not really an option as they are only worth around 30-50 bucks together here. (Also, server grade equipment is not something the local market is flooded with).

Situation is quite similar to gth871r, probably not more than 2 or 3 users at a time. But I'd like to be on the safe side.
Another thought: When using the old FX8350 with the mainboard.... I know the power consumption is probably higher than with a newer CPU, but I guess this system can run for a very long time before it's power consumption matches the cost of a newer system.
 

Hafnernuss

Dabbler
Joined
Nov 9, 2020
Messages
14
Thanks for the suggestion. I already thought about that. That would only make sense if I bought the Mini series, and configured for 6x10TB would run me indee a little over 3k, but I'm more of a rackmount guy, and those wont fit (or do they?).
 

jayecin

Explorer
Joined
Oct 12, 2020
Messages
79
No such thing as overkill, just room for growth.
 

Inxsible

Guru
Joined
Aug 14, 2017
Messages
1,123
No such thing as overkill, just room for growth.
No point in having room for growth, when your use case doesn't need it. You'd simply be wasting money.
 

Hafnernuss

Dabbler
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Nov 9, 2020
Messages
14
So... I kind of get the feeling that either everyone overlooked it or you guys are hesitating to comment on this.... Would the FX8350 be good enough? Together with the crosshair V? Upgraded with the mentioned HBA and 16GB of ECC 1600 Ram? I'm not asking if its compatible because I guess kniw kne can tell besids people that have done it... Only from the point of raw performance....
 

jayecin

Explorer
Joined
Oct 12, 2020
Messages
79
The FX-8350 would be more than enough, especially if you are just using it for storage.
 

ThreeDee

Guru
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Jun 13, 2013
Messages
698
No point in having room for growth, when your use case doesn't need it. You'd simply be wasting money.
use cases don't always remain static .. I started with an E-350 AMD setup for just a simple storage solution ..then I discovered jails .. and plex .. and stuff :smile:
 

Inxsible

Guru
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Aug 14, 2017
Messages
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use cases don't always remain static ..
Agreed. So build something that satisfies your needs today and for the next few years. What's the point of building a monster rig and using it only as a file server for the next 10 years?
I started with an E-350 AMD setup for just a simple storage solution ..then I discovered jails .. and plex .. and stuff :smile:
I discovered all these things as well.... I just built a separate VM server to handle all that. A single machine doesn't have to do everything as far as I am concerned.
 

ThreeDee

Guru
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Jun 13, 2013
Messages
698
Agreed. So build something that satisfies your needs today and for the next few years. What's the point of building a monster rig and using it only as a file server for the next 10 years?
one and done


I discovered all these things as well.... I just built a separate VM server to handle all that. A single machine doesn't have to do everything as far as I am concerned.
More servers usually equates more money ..

ultimately it's up to the individual as to what is going to suit their specific needs/wants/budget I suppose.
 

Apollo

Wizard
Joined
Jun 13, 2013
Messages
1,450
TL'DR:
I have a fairly recent'ish G4600 CPU on Supermicro motherboard which is doing more than it requested of it to handle one or two plugoins and just works great as a backup receiving replication system. It seems to outperform my Xeon E3 older setup, though.
In the recent years, I have migrated away from Intel, simply because they didn't really improve much.
I have switched to AMD (Threadripper builds) both for my main Truenas (Old Freenas convert) and my main Windows 10 PC/Workstation).
From what I have seen in the past while is the that Intel is losing pace and just can't keep up against AMD.

I have the old 1900X running Freenas/TrueNAS and main Windows 10 running 2950X.
I don't see myself using Intel anytime soon.

Going AMD isn't necessarely always straight forward, (ie. Ryzen build issues reported on this forum). But you need to dig up the relevant information that will help you decide which way to go.
 

Hafnernuss

Dabbler
Joined
Nov 9, 2020
Messages
14
Huh, the site was down for quite some time now...
Thanks for all your replies.
I also plan on building my own VM server, as @Inxsible has done, so the TrueNas machine will be nothing more than a storage machine, as I like to keep things seperate. (I am not sure though if the VMs should "live" inside the NAS, but probably not, as they wont require much storage)

But I guess it's settled then. I will go for a new main rig and repurpose the old components for a TrueNas server to give them a second life, as they seem to be more than strong enough. And until I buy the new PC I hopefully will have enough time to fully comprehend that I will never be able to use more than ~33TB of the 60TB installed capacity. Coming from the JBOD world (without ever experiencing a single disk failure and absolutly _NO_ backups at all) this is a hard pill to swallow.

I guess I will have to face the "challenge" of getting everything up and running on this fairly old hardware, but as far as my research goes there seem to be no obvious showstoppers. If anyone is interested I can post a status update here (but this probably wont be before february/march 21.

I'm still open for any input you might have, and I am grateful for all the good advice you guys have given me so far. Big thumbs up!
 
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