Hardware advice for new build

[darrenbest]

The revised Hardware Guide is great to see, as I am currently specing out my system.

It is advising against any longer using a USB flash drive as a boot device, instead recommending an SSD. In my case, the board I'm going with (Supermicro X11SSM-F) has 8 SATA ports, and I'm going to have 8 spinning drives. The board also has no on-board NVMe slot. (I had been assuming I'd be using the board's internal USB port for a flash drive.)

However, there are 4 PCI-e slots that I had no intention of using. There are very cheap PCI-e adapters on Amazon that allow you to mount an NVMe SSD on the card. Anyone know if this Supermicro board will have any issues booting off a drive installed in this manner?

Thanks!

 

[Chris Moore]

The board also has no on-board NVMe slot.

NVMe is very fast and there is no advantage in making the boot drive super fast. There are less expensive PCIe to SSD cards that will work fine.

Take a look at this post, see what you think:

Cool hardware: Addonics AD3M2SPX4 M.2 to PCIe converter

I was a bit bothered by the large number of available SATA ports and one or two free PCIe slots in the VM storage server here. With the boost from 64GB to 128GB of RAM, the 256GB M.2 Samsung XP941 with its AHCI interface for L2ARC was feeling a little dated anyways. M.2 offers several...

www.truenas.com

 

[Yorick]

It is advising against any longer using a USB flash drive as a boot device, instead recommending an SSD

In addition to that PCIe adapter idea, you can also use a USB to SATA m.2 adapter. https://www.truenas.com/community/t...-my-usb-mirrored-boot-drive.86174/post-596973

 

[darrenbest]

NVMe is very fast and there is no advantage in making the boot drive super fast. There are less expensive PCIe to SSD cards that will work fine.

Take a look at this post, see what you think:

Cool hardware: Addonics AD3M2SPX4 M.2 to PCIe converter

I was a bit bothered by the large number of available SATA ports and one or two free PCIe slots in the VM storage server here. With the boost from 64GB to 128GB of RAM, the 256GB M.2 Samsung XP941 with its AHCI interface for L2ARC was feeling a little dated anyways. M.2 offers several...

www.truenas.com

This thread is quite old and the product doesn't seem to be available anymore, but if I understand it, it has 1xNVMe and 2xSATA M.2 ports. But it looks like the SATA ports are just for power: you still have to run a data cable from a motherboard port to this card for each of the SATA SSDs. (Unless I'm wrong, I certainly could be.) Plus my brief shopping shows that at the lower end of capacity (250/256GB), there is virtually no difference in price between an NVMe and a SATA SSD in the M.2 form factor.

In addition to that PCIe adapter idea, you can also use a USB to SATA m.2 adapter. https://www.truenas.com/community/t...-my-usb-mirrored-boot-drive.86174/post-596973

I assumed the reason the new Hardware Guide recommends against the use of the USB flash drive was to avoid the USB bus. If so, what does this product accomplish? Also, wouldn't this thing also probably have some really sketchy SATA chip? What advantage would this have over a decent USB flash drive as a boot device?

I don't know, am I making sense? If I was to go with my original idea (this is the M.2 to PCI-E adapter I was referring to), coupled with an NVMe drive, is this a logical setup?

 

[danb35]

I assumed the reason the new Hardware Guide recommends against the use of the USB flash drive was to avoid the USB bus.

Not really, although it isn't really recommended for data drives. The reason is that USB flash drives are, generally speaking, notoriously short-lived as boot devices. A USB SSD, even though it uses the same bus, seems to last much better.

 

[Yorick]

If I was to go with my original idea

I haven’t tried that, it looks like a solid idea to me. No bifurcation and basically just presenting PCIe to a physical m.2 slot means I can’t really see how it would go wrong.

 

[Yorick]

What advantage would this have over a decent USB flash drive as a boot device?

The better flash controller you find on an SSD. I don’t know that “decent USB flash drive” for purposes as a boot medium can still be found. It’s not the bus so much, it’s that USB flash drives just die. They last longer if USB 2.0. We don’t have a long time with these usb to m.2 SATA boot sticks yet; so far, they seem to be holding up well.

The SATA to USB bridge being used is the VL716, which tests well in another product - repeating a test like that for this enclosure may be interesting, to see whether it too passes through TRIM. https://www.anandtech.com/show/1070...h-usb-31-gen-2-typec-hddssd-enclosures-review

 

[darrenbest]

The better flash controller you find on an SSD. I don’t know that “decent USB flash drive” for purposes as a boot medium can still be found. It’s not the bus so much, it’s that USB flash drives just die. They last longer if USB 2.0. We don’t have a long time with these usb to m.2 SATA boot sticks yet; so far, they seem to be holding up well.

The SATA to USB bridge being used is the VL716, which tests well in another product - repeating a test like that for this enclosure may be interesting, to see whether it too passes through TRIM. https://www.anandtech.com/show/1070...h-usb-31-gen-2-typec-hddssd-enclosures-review

Good to know, thanks.

I haven’t tried that, it looks like a solid idea to me. No bifurcation and basically just presenting PCIe to a physical m.2 slot means I can’t really see how it would go wrong.

I will. When I get to it, and if I have any issues, I'll start a new thread instead of continuing to pollute this one.

 

[Chris Moore]

I assumed the reason the new Hardware Guide recommends against the use of the USB flash drive was to avoid the USB bus.

The USB bus has (in my view) created problems with keeping mirror disks in sync. Using USB for storage has caused problems even with mechanical disks. It is advisable to avoid it if possible. The only reason it is usable for the boot pool is because the traffic to the boot pool is limited.

What advantage would this have over a decent USB flash drive as a boot device?

In an effort to save a buck, many vendors produce very poor quality storage devices for USB flash drives. Even cheap SSD drives are much better. I have a pair of 120GB Intel SSDs as the boot pool in several NAS systems at work and they have been completely problem free for (in some cases) three years. They are available on eBay pretty cheap used and most of them still have a lot of useful life remaining.

 

[Ericloewe]

I will. When I get to it, and if I have any issues, I'll start a new thread instead of continuing to pollute this one.

I forked off the build discussion into its own thread, you can post here.

NVMe is very fast and there is no advantage in making the boot drive super fast. There are less expensive PCIe to SSD cards that will work fine.

Take a look at this post, see what you think:

Cool hardware: Addonics AD3M2SPX4 M.2 to PCIe converter

I was a bit bothered by the large number of available SATA ports and one or two free PCIe slots in the VM storage server here. With the boost from 64GB to 128GB of RAM, the 256GB M.2 Samsung XP941 with its AHCI interface for L2ARC was feeling a little dated anyways. M.2 offers several...

www.truenas.com

While SATA is still somewhat cheaper than NVMe, even for M.2 SSDs, the cost difference is pretty small. Granted, some reputable 120 GB-class SATA models still exist, such as the Crucial BX500, which gets the price down a bit more.

I terms of "just working", the simplest solution, in my opinion, is a passive PCIe card to M.2 adapter plus an NVMe SSD. Either single or multiple, the latter if the motherboard supports the requisite bifurcation option.
I've grown to like the idea of the USB/SATA bridge, since the better models these days are well-supported by smartmontools and performance isn't critical, but mechanical considerations can make that somewhat clunky.
For motherboards with M.2 slots, I would not hesitate to use those (even if they're PCIe-only), since it's a neater solution.

Of course, the enterprise solution is a pair of rear hot-swap 2.5" SATA (or conceivably SAS and/or NVMe) drive bays with high-end consumer SATA SSDs.

 

[Chris Moore]

Of course, the enterprise solution is a pair of rear hot-swap 2.5" SATA (or conceivably SAS and/or NVMe) drive bays with high-end consumer SATA SSDs.

That is what I did for my home NAS.

My new 48 bay build.

I ordered a new chassis. A closeout special. I normally don't buy new, but I made an exception.. It arrived today. http://www.chenbro.com/en-global/products/RackmountChassis/4U_Chassis/NR40700

www.truenas.com

I like that chassis well enough, I wish I could find another at the bargain price I paid back then.