Do these parts work well together?

[Octaviour]

Hi all,

I have recently become aware of the existence of bit-rot and thought this would be a good time to put together a decent server. Mainly it will be serving files through samba and Owncloud/Nextcloud and Plex but I would also like it to serve some basic web pages, act as a VPN server and some other minor tasks. Most likely I will be the only one heavily using the server, but there might be three other users as well. One HD Plex stream would be sufficient though. I like tinkering, so a custom build has my preference. I think 4TB should be sufficient for my storage needs for now and a mirror seems to be my best option. Finally I would like the server as cheap as possible, while not feeling too limited.

By now I think I spend a good amount of time in researching components and I figured it would be a good time to ask for other opinions. Please let me know if any of the components below are a bad choice or don't work with FreeNAS at all or if any components are missing (including external components such as a UPS). I'm also interested in hearing cheaper alternatives that would not be limiting for my use case. I'm based in the Netherlands, so any price I'm stating includes shipping to there.

The parts I have in mind:
Mobo: Supermicro X11SSL-F (203 EUR)
RAM: Samsung M391A1G43EB1-CRC 8GB (112 EUR)
CPU: Intel Pentium G4600 (90 EUR)
Case: Cooler Master Elite 342 (36 EUR)
PSU: Seasonic G-series 360W (65 EUR)
HDD: 2x WD Red 4TB (270 EUR)
Boot drive: 2x Sandisk Ultra Fit 32GB (30 EUR)
UPS: Eaton 3S 550VA (83 EUR)

Total: 889 EUR

Thanks for the help!

 

[BigDave]

I would strongly urge you to spend the money and buy the 16GB stick,
of Samsung M391A2K43BB1-CPB

If you ever desire or require 64GB of RAM, you'll be sad that that 8GB
stick is taking up one of your four RAM slots.

Also would recommend the X11SSM-F board with PCH C236 with 8 SATA ports and four PCIe slots, versus the SSL model with the PCH C232
with only 6 SATA slots and only 3 PCIe slots.
Yes you will pay more but it's a substantial upgrade and I'm not sure
if the above memory will be compatible with the SSM version.

 

[nightshade00013]

You may be able to save a few bucks with a G4560 vs the G4600, you lose about 200 passmark rating but that is very minor but may save quite a bit in cash ~10 EUR. The 4600 steps up to a better gpu which is irrelevant with a server anyway.

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare.php?cmp[]=2921&cmp[]=2925

https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/compare.php?cmp[]=3647&cmp[]=3540

 

[Chris Moore]

PSU: Seasonic G-series 360W (65 EUR)

I think you should go with a 450 or even a 450 watt power supply in the event you want to add more drives later for more storage. Having the more robust power supply will keep you from having to change it later and you really don't save anything going with the smaller supply.

it will be serving files through samba and Owncloud/Nextcloud and Plex but I would also like it to serve some basic web pages, act as a VPN server and some other minor tasks.

You are asking a lot of such a low end processor, if your performance is not up to what you expect or want, you will likely need to go to a more powerful processor. I know you want to keep the price down, but better to buy it once instead of needing to buy twice so you can upgrade to what you should have bought to begin with. You also do not need a processor that has embedded graphics because the Supermicro server boards have an embedded GPU for the IPMI.

 

[Chris Moore]

UPS: Eaton 3S 550VA (83 EUR)

PS. You should go with a larger UPS so it has some run time to give the NAS time to shut down if there is a power outage. Also, don't neglect to connect the UPS so it can give the NAS the signal to shutdown when the power fails.

 

[Ericloewe]

I think you should go with a 450 or even a 450 watt power supply in the event you want to add more drives later for more storage. Having the more robust power supply will keep you from having to change it later and you really don't save anything going with the smaller supply.

The biggest advantage is semi-modularity. There are few things worse than tangles of unused PSU cables to tuck away.

 

[Chris Moore]

biggest advantage is semi-modularity.

I didn't bash on the modularity, I am all for that. I just suggest more capacity for future expansion.

 

[nightshade00013]

I have to agree that something with more horsepower is needed if you are going to run a lot of stuff like you have mentioned. I looked at the parts list when suggesting the cheaper cpu without reading what you want to do with it.

 

[PMFreenas]

IMHO you should get the SSM board only if you plan to use the extra 2 SATA ports, i.e. 8 data HDDs vs 6, the two bottom X4 slots (one in the SSL model) come from the PCH and unless you want to install four cards it's better to use the CPU-handled slots (the top two ones, X8 link with one in X16 connector for i.e. video card) and those are the same on both models. Other features are the same as well, since it's the same PCB.
Be careful with memory modules, the ones you suggested are DDR4-2400 but the ones from BigDave are slower, 2133. On 4TB of mirrored storage I would start with 16GB in two sticks, you can always upgrade to 32 or 48 (16-8-16-8) without ditching the old ones.
CPU I'd steer away from cheap Pentium solutions since you get only two cores and a graphics section that on the X11SSx boards can't be used but consumes power. A Skylake-L Xeon like the E3-1240Lv5 or 1260Lv5 might be better, it costs much more like 250-300 EUR but you get 4 cores and 8 threads, no graphics and less power: 25W for the 1240L and 45W for the 1260L, all for cores and not graphics you won't ever use. FYI the G4560 or G4600 have a TDP of 52W but for two cores and graphics, you could get the T variants which are 35W but that's always two cores and graphics vs. 4 cores.

 

[Octaviour]

Thanks for all the replies! It seems I still have quite a few decisions to make. Below are my follow-up questions per component.

Mobo: The X11SSM-F is indeed only slightly more expensive, but I have a hard time justifying the cost. As far as I can see (and backed up by PMFreenas's answer) I only get 2 more SATA ports and one PCI-e slot. Currently I estimate I'm using between 1 and 2TB, so 4 TB seems plenty already. The X11SSL-F already allows me to expand by 4 drives and even more by adding PCI-e cards. Am I missing something or would this board be sufficient for my storage needs?

RAM: I read that FreeNAS should run with 8GB, although maybe not too smoothly. My plan was to start with 8GB and expand with 8GB if necessary. In the long run I could plug in 32GB more without removing the old sticks. Do you think 48GB would limit me in the long run?

CPU: Except for Plex I was under the impression my use cases were not very computationally intensive. Would I really need more CPU? A Xeon is much more expensive and I have a hard time justifying the cost here. I imagine the server will be idle most of the time, so I'm not sure TDP is the correct figure to look at in determining the power consumption.

PSU: I understood that PSU's become very inefficient below ~20% of their capacity. I was therefore opting for a low power one. I have to admit I had a hard time finding any power ratings for the main board and the HDD's, so my original capacity was kind of a guestimate. Would you have a rule of thumb for the power draw of the main board and HDDs?

UPS: The Eaton 3S manual states a 60Wh battery. If I'm drawing the full PSU capacity of 360W (the initially selected model), that should allow me to run the server for 10 minutes, right? The server should easily be able to shut down in that time frame, or am I missing something here?

Things that did not get any comments were the case, boot drives and HDD's, so it seems like I did get something right :).

Just to help you understand a bit better where I'm coming from: Initially I was planning on building a server for something like 500 EUR including the drives. It has become clear to me that that would require cutting too many corners which led to the list in the first post. You can imagine I'm trying to keep the cost as low as possible, so that I will still be able to justify the expense.

 

[Stux]

The X11SSL will be fine.

Starting with 8GB will be fine.

The pentium will be fine, an i3 might be more appropriate though, 4 threads vs 2.

Not sure about a 360W PSU.

 

[PMFreenas]

Alright, glad I was of some help from down here in EU
AFAIK the only difference between X11SSL and SSM is the 4th X4 slot from PCH and the 2 more SATA ports, nothing more. If you use up all 6 SATA ports you can always put a PCIE controller card, and for that you have 2 X8 slots from the CPU which are best compared to the X4 ones from PCH (chipset), that would mean plenty of drives (32+ using two 16+ port cards). So i would go for X11SSL.
FreeNAS can run somewhat decently with 8GB but that's the bare minimum, if you plan 1-2TB of storage it should be enough but incrementing to 4TB+ I would upgrade to 16GB. One important thing to keep in mind: with a single 8GB stick CPU runs in single-channel memory mode, so if you want 8GB I'd suggest buying two 4GB sticks, small RAM but better performance than single 8GB. You can upgrade to 16GB with two more 4GB modules or 24GB with 2x8GB which should be more than enough, I ran a NAS with 18TB and 16GB RAM for 3 years without problems and strong performance.
CPU: low power variants are somewhat optimized to consume slightly less and heat up less even in idle. The G4600 will support ECC memory but I would go for the G4560 or its 35W variant G4560T, smaller graphics (=less waste of power for a CPU section you cannot use). Otherwise an i3-7100 with 4 threads (~100 EUR).
For PSU you can decide based on max worst case power, I would suggest 65W CPU, 35W mobo with memory and boot drive(s), 10W for every data HDD you attach, something like 100-150W, so even a 300W PSU should be fine, to fall in its max efficiency point (usually 40-60% load). Your choice of Seasonic is adequate.
Don't estimate UPS backup power duration just on its battery capacity and your system power requirements: UPSes have their internal circuitry to keep powered on even on batteries (i.e. load switching relays and internal CPU), so backup time will be less, for cheap models way less. A typical backup time on full UPS load is 2-3 minutes, the 3S550 provides about 25 minutes with the estimated power of your system in idle but it will drop sensibly upon adding HDDs or using multiple services that load some CPU.

 

[Stux]

One important thing to keep in mind: with a single 8GB stick CPU runs in single-channel memory mode, so if you want 8GB I'd suggest buying two 4GB sticks, small RAM but better performance than single 8GB. You can upgrade to 16GB with two more 4GB modules or 24GB with 2x8GB

This is poor advise.

Dual channel very really makes a difference in FreeNAS. It's far more important to not limit your maximum ram.

Go with a single 8GB stick or a single 16GB if you don't want to limit your maximum memory.

 

[Stux]

10W for every data HDD you attach, something like 100-150W

This is also poor advise. What matters with HDs is their spin up power requirements, and modern HDs use between 25-36W *each* at spin up.

https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/proper-power-supply-sizing-guidance.38811/

 

[Stux]

CPU: low power variants are somewhat optimized to consume slightly less and heat up less even in idle. The G4600 will support ECC memory but I would go for the G4560 or its 35W variant G4560T, smaller graphics (=less waste of power for a CPU section you cannot use). Otherwise an i3-7100 with 4 threads (~100 EUR).

Low power variants use the same power as high power variants at idle. But they are crippled at full speed and provide less peak performance, and can actually result in more power usage in a race to idle scenario.

There is no reason to use a low power variant in a normal FreeNAS situation unless you are dealing with thermal or power constraints.

 

[Stux]

AFAIK the only difference between X11SSL and SSM is the 4th X4 slot from PCH and the 2 more SATA ports

A pretty big difference.

The extra x4 slot could be used for a 10gbe card, or an NVMe drive.

 

[PMFreenas]

Well, it seems that Octaviour doesn't need a high performance system, on a tight budget you have to find the best compromise between price and performance.

35W spinup current might be true for very high-end datacenter drives, I measured ~21W on 2-platter WD1003FBYX (2011 RE4) and even my last Re and Se drives (4TB 5-platter) have a lower peak power (2-step 0-5400?-7200 spinup). NAS drives are designed for the lowest power requirements even when starting, to reduce risk of overloading some boxes with very tight PSUs: I recently configured a Synology RS816 for a friend, it has a single-rail 100W power supply for the whole system and it officially supports WD Re datacenter drives.
My current C2550 build with 4x 4TB Red and 32GB RAM has an idle of 45W and start 80, it runs off a Seasonic 300W PSU because I couldn't find a smaller model (200-250W). My brother has an old "spare" NAS with a similar HDD setup, a C2D laptop CPU off a tiny FSP 150W PSU, 7 years never a problem.

Our Dutch friend won't put 8x X15 drives in his system with a E3-1285, for that I'd advise min 500W... best quality PSUs of course (Seasonic, Enermax, Silverstone and some Corsairs) but power rating should be chosen according to what you are installing in the system and what you might install in the near future, not the TOP configuration you can build with that mobo.

I keep on suggesting 300-400W, if he plans to never upgrade to more than 4 drives then 300-350, if plans to go 6-8 then 400 (or 450).

The last "beast" desktop system I built (torn down in 2015) was a dual L5640 with 48GB RAM and a total of 20x3.5" plus 8x2.5" plus 4xSSD, 5xODD, Quadro 4000 and two old controller cards (spec 15W each): with 35W per 3.5" drive it would have been ~800W just for storage (1.5kW PSU?), instead it ran smoothly for 8 years first on 850W (and E5520 CPUs), then on 1kW with a peak power startup of 450 that dropped below 400 when I switched from mixed RE-Greens to all WD 3.5" Reds.

 

[Inxsible]

CPU: Except for Plex I was under the impression my use cases were not very computationally intensive. Would I really need more CPU? A Xeon is much more expensive and I have a hard time justifying the cost here. I imagine the server will be idle most of the time, so I'm not sure TDP is the correct figure to look at in determining the power consumption.

FWIW, I run Plex, CouchPotato and Transmission on my machine with a Pentium G3240. I can run a max of 2 Plex streams but I haven't had any issues. I haven't looked much at the amount of CPU usage, but I can later tonight just to see what range the CPU stays in when running a Plex stream along with Transmission and CouchPotato.

PSU: I understood that PSU's become very inefficient below ~20% of their capacity. I was therefore opting for a low power one. I have to admit I had a hard time finding any power ratings for the main board and the HDD's, so my original capacity was kind of a guestimate. Would you have a rule of thumb for the power draw of the main board and HDDs?

I run a 450W PSU -- Corsair CS450M, to be precise - for my system with 6 drives. Check my signature for complete specs.

 

[Octaviour]

Thanks again everyone and sorry for the late reply. I think I now have a clear idea of the trade-offs involved in picking the parts I was unsure about. I'll let it settle a bit and order something appropriate. If you're interested I could post my purchases later. You've been a great help!

 

[Octaviour]

By now I've decided on the parts. In summary, I think it'll be worth it to spend just a bit more and be certain that everything will work well in the end. I have therefore come to the system below, with bold parts indicating changes with respect to the initial proposal.

Mobo: Supermicro X11SSM-F
RAM: Samsung M391A2K43BB1-CRC 16GB
CPU: Intel i3 7300 (the fastest processor that is much cheaper than the Xeons)
Case: Cooler Master Elite 342
PSU: Seasonic FOCUS Plus Series 550W as the G-series is hard to get around here for some reason
HDD: 2x WD Red 4TB
Boot drive: 2x Sandisk Ultra Fit 32GB
UPS: Eaton 3S 550VA, still under consideration.

If you have anything further to say about this build, please do. I'm especially interested in comments regarding the PSU, as this was not discussed before.