Anyone want a Debian with ZFS boot? And alternate boot environments?

[Arwen]

Now that TrueOS is somewhat in the rear view mirror, perhaps iXsystems can release a Debian variant with ZFS boot & alternate boot environments. When starting to think about TrueNAS SCALE, I was worried that we would loose the ability to roll back an update by booting off a prior ZFS boot environment. SCALE decided to surprise me with ZFS booting, (on Linux!). Same as TrueNAS Core, (which has ZFS booting from FreeBSD).

Their are no Linux distros, (that I know of), that include installing to ZFS. I think the old Antergos did it, but it is a dead distro now. Gentoo comes close, but I never bother and always install to EXT3/4 first, then migrate after. (Gentoo is lots of manual steps anyway...)

So, who is in favor of iXsystems releasing a Linux distro with the ability to install on ZFS?
And has easy support for ZFS based alternate boot environments?

 

[blanchet]

Ubuntu 20.04 desktop supports already ZFS for the root filesystem, but I do not know if it supports boot environment.

 

[Arwen]

@blanchet Yes, I know Unbuntu supports ZFS for root.

But, does it support automated and easy INSTALLING on ZFS root?

I guess I could spin up a VM and see.

It seems most desktop Linux distros are defined on their installer, package system and default GUI.

I mean Ubuntu 16.x supported ZFS and probably ZFS on root. That probably goes back 4 years. Yet when I looked at the instructions on how it was done, I stuck with my tried and true Gentoo. In someway converting a regular Gentoo on EXT4 root to ZFS root was trivial. Just did it last night on my new laptop. (Made a minor mistake, but easy fix.)

 

[ornias]

Their are no Linux distros, (that I know of), that include installing to ZFS.

Proxmox does ;-)

 

[Arwen]

Ah, but is Proxmox a normal desktop Linux distro?

Everything I've read, including just now from their homepage, is that Proxmox is a server oriented distro. Including running VMs inside a ZFS dataset. Not something a desktop Linux distro would include.

TrueOS was a normal FreeBSD desktop distro, with ZFS root & alternate boot environments.

 

[ornias]

No, but you just said there where no linux distro's (that you knew off) at all... ;-)

 

[Yorick]

Both zectl ZFS Boot Environment Manager for Linux | John Ramsden (ramsdenj.com) and ZFSBootMenu | A boot loader to manage ZFS boot environments want to be a Debian boot menu. Figure out which you like better, then either make a suggestion issue for it or even offer a PR?

 

[Zero-One]

@blanchet Yes, I know Unbuntu supports ZFS for root.

But, does it support automated and easy INSTALLING on ZFS root?

Ubuntu 20.04 Desktop (not server) allows for easy install of ZFS. I forget the exact option, but is it listed under "Advanced Features" when you choose installation type.

Sadly, custom ZFS topographies are not supported yet (such as mirroring), but I read that it should be supported in future Ubuntu releases.

There is also a series of blog posts by one of the Ubuntu developers of ZFS on Ubuntu. They describe how they structure ZFS and design desicions they made.
List of Posts:

ZFS focus on Ubuntu 20.04 LTS blog posts

Hey everyone! Here is the place to discuss about my new blog post series on the work we have done in Ubuntu 20.04 LTS on ZFS experimental support and ZSys. This is the place to discuss about the content and I’ll update this first post to reference any new episods. The first topic is available...

discourse.ubuntu.com

 

[ornias]

Sadly, custom ZFS topographies are not supported yet (such as mirroring), but I read that it should be supported in future Ubuntu releases.

isn't the default used by ubuntu Mirroring?

 

[Zero-One]

isn't the default used by ubuntu Mirroring?

Unfortunately, no. The default is single disk.

 

[ornias]

Unfortunately, no. The default is single disk.

And you can't add another at all?

 

[Ericloewe]

I've deployed a bunch of workstations and servers with Ubuntu 18.04 and 20.04, with root on ZFS. The ZFS part is extremely straightforward, as is to be expected, but the manual install process for Ubuntu from zero to usable system is less than intuitive.

And you can't add another at all?

Sure you can, but manually.

 

[Zero-One]

And you can't add another at all?

As Ericloewe said, it is a manual process to install different typographies.

However, at least in the ZFS reddit forums, there seems to be a way to add a mirror drive after the fact. The who asked seems to have done so successfully.

[deleted by user]

The zfs community on Reddit. Reddit gives you the best of the internet in one place.

old.reddit.com

 

[Zero-One]

As Ericloewe said, it is a manual process to install different typographies.

However, at least in the ZFS reddit forums, there seems to be a way to add a mirror drive after the fact. The who asked seems to have done so successfully.

[deleted by user]

The zfs community on Reddit. Reddit gives you the best of the internet in one place.

old.reddit.com

I forgot to add as well, for those using the desktop installer and are able to, one can edit the Ubuntu installer script (located in /usr/share/ubiquity/zsys-setup) on the live ubuntu 20.04 LTS desktop image before reaching the partitioning page

Details of the script:

zsys-setup « scripts - ubuntu/+source/ubiquity - [no description]

git.launchpad.net

Where mentioned and details of Ubuntu's partition scheme:

ZFS focus on Ubuntu 20.04 LTS: ZSys partition layout

ZFS focus on Ubuntu 20.04 LTS: ZSys partition layout We have covered ZSys quite extensively over the past blog posts, from what’s new to its functionalities in details. It’s now time to look at the other part of the system: what happens when you install your system? Which partition layout and...

didrocks.fr

 

[Arwen]

Hmm, yes Ubuntu has come a fair distance in ZFS support. I spun up a VM, and 20.4 LTS was trivial to install with ZFS root. Now I have to figure out if it supports alternate boot environments, (easily). They still use the ZFS version 0.8.x, not the 2.x. Though that is the stable version, and I use that version at home too.

Of course, Ubuntu is designed for end-users, so it looks quite ugly to me. But, you can make anything look ugly and I probably could make the GUI look better for me. (I have used XFCE4 for the last 9 years...)

 

[Ericloewe]

Now I have to figure out if it supports alternate boot environments, (easily).

To some extent. New boot environments are automagically created whenever you change something with apt (with a cooldown period of sorts so that a bunch of changes in a short period get bundled in a single environment). Management was lacking at launch, but I haven't looked too much into that yet.

Of course, Ubuntu is designed for end-users, so it looks quite ugly to me.

The installers for the various flavors haven't been (all?) updated to support ZFS yet, but you can always install standard ubuntu and then install the packages for whichever environment you prefer. Something like apt install xubuntu-desktop might get you most of the way to where you want to be.