Anyone found a source for Microsemi NV-1616 or NV-1608 NVMe?

[jkiel]

Mouser has them in minimum quantities of 10 with 20 week lead time. ~$22,000 for 10 cards when you only need 1 for ~$2,200 is a bit too bitter of a pill to swallow. (The NV-1608 is only ~ $1,200, but again you have to buy 10 and wait 18 weeks.)

The 16GB and 8GB DRAM based NVMe seem to be the perfect device for SLOG, apparently being built specifically for the task. "Sub-microsecond latency."

PDF on the devices:
https://www.microsemi.com/document-portal/doc_view/135965-flashtec-nvram-drive-family

 

[Ericloewe]

Ooh, interesting little thing. Hadn't heard of it yet.

 

[Pezo]

Wow, that price tag though...
Don't you think the Intel Optane drives would work nearly as well as this thing, for a fraction of the price?

 

[Stux]

Depending on performance requirements, Intel P3700 might be satisfactory at less than half the price. But if you're requirements are for better than P4800X performance, then I guess this is the only real option... since ZeusRAM is not BSD compatible.

 

[jkiel]

~$1,200 for 8GB or ~$2,200 for 16GB really isn't that bad for a device with well under 1 microsecond latency. The problem is finding them in single quantities. I don't think ZeusRAM even comes close with the latency introduced by SAS. Doesn't the P3700 beat ZeusRAM?

Not sure how the Optane P4800X compares. If it performs very close to the NV-1608, @ ~ $1,800, it's probably a good alternative.

Please, someone correct my if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that the low cost m.2 16GB and 32GB Optanes have no dram cache, so have a relatively high write latency compared to the P3700?

 

[Stux]

~$1,200 for 8GB or ~$2,200 for 16GB really isn't that bad for a device with well under 1 microsecond latency. The problem is finding them in single quantities. I don't think ZeusRAM even comes close with the latency introduced by SAS. Doesn't the P3700 beat ZeusRAM?

ZeusRAM beats it on endurance

Not sure how the Optane P4800X compares. If it performs very close to the NV-1608, @ ~ $1,800, it's probably a good alternative.

typically less than 10 µs
http://www.anandtech.com/show/11209...-dive-into-3d-xpoint-enterprise-performance/4

Please, someone correct my if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that the low cost m.2 16GB and 32GB Optanes have no dram cache, so have a relatively high write latency compared to the P3700?

I wasn't referring to those. They're not suitable as SLOG devices.

The Microsemi device sounds perfect. If you can get *one*

 

[jkiel]

ZeusRAM beats it on endurance

True.

typically less than 10 µs
http://www.anandtech.com/show/11209...-dive-into-3d-xpoint-enterprise-performance/4

From what I see there, and can find elsewhere, the latency of the P4800X doesn't seem much if any better than the P3700. So, apart from endurance (~2X, but with 2 years less warranty than P3700), for SLOG, is there any real benefit?

I wasn't referring to those. They're not suitable as SLOG devices.

Sorry, that was more in response to Pezo's "fraction of the price". I wasn't sure if it was in reference to the $22k price for 10, or a single NV-1616. If a single, the P4800X isn't all that much less, so it made me think of the 16 and 32GB Optanes.

The Microsemi device sounds perfect. If you can get *one*

My thoughts exactly.

For anyone that does want to order 10 and wait 18 to 20 weeks:
NV-1608:
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...5x9oJ2tQbOMvWmjUBH6R0BtJ2rUhKIHOL9vRVLzYejA==
NV-1616:
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...Xgk0G4kR6dwNI6DYsJ5a9vEjbifjhFI1OUfKGX0BRAA==

Though it may be better to contact Microsemi directly in that case.

 

[Pezo]

They're not suitable as SLOG devices.

Why not?

 

[Stux]

Why not?

Because they have no Power Loss Protection. Nor are they very fast or with high endurance.

 

[jkiel]

Because they have no Power Loss Protection. Nor are they very fast or with high endurance.

I've read that cache-less 3d Xpoint devices, like the 16 and 32GB Optanes, don't require power loss protection -- though you would think there is still some vulnerable data in-flight through the controller.

Regardless, as you point out, their low endurance and high latency make them very poor choices for SLOG.

 

[Pezo]

High latency and low endurance, I thought the opposite was true? Isn't Optane supposed to be sooo much faster and better than current SSDs?

 

[Ericloewe]

High latency and low endurance, I thought the opposite was true? Isn't Optane supposed to be sooo much faster and better than current SSDs?

Yes, but the small devices are consumer-grade crap for "hybrid" setups. The enterprise-grade stuff is still only available to big customers.

 

[Pezo]

I see, now I also remember that the review I read a few days ago was indeed for the P4800X , not the small ones.

 

[John Adams]

I actually have one of these.

Picked it up on eBay probably early 2016.

Works fairly amazingly for ZIL with 10Gbe however since I purchased it secondhand it did not include the super capacitor (which I've been trying to find for years now) so I tend not to use it.
Sure puts out a lot of heat though, I wouldn't recommend it in a non rack mounted server. It puts my DL380p G8 ~60% fans constantly.

 

[Ericloewe]

It puts my DL380p G8 ~60% fans constantly.

Holy crap, how much power can a few GB of DRAM suck up?

Picked it up on eBay probably early 2016.

It's been available for that long? How come we all missed it?

 

[jkiel]

Holy crap, how much power can a few GB of DRAM suck up?

Perhaps the power requirement is why we don't see wider availability? I'm already pushing the envelope on the 2 20A circuits in our cabinet right now.

It's been available for that long? How come we all missed it?

The 4GB version has apparently been "available" (if you want to call it that) since ~April 2015, the 8GB since ~June 2015, and the 16GB since ~January 2016.

Knowing now that these things consume so much power, I'm a little less keen on them, though the P3700 and P4800X aren't exactly models of power efficiency.

I wonder if we missed the window on these. Perhaps NVDIMMs have made them irrelevant?

it did not include the super capacitor (which I've been trying to find for years now)

I'm not sure if PMC-Sierra/Microsemi ever sold the SCM-F35, SCM-F70 or SCM-F100 as a separate part.

 

[Stux]

Knowing now that these things consume so much power, I'm a little less keen on them, though the P3700 and P4800X aren't exactly models of power efficiency.

I wonder if we missed the window on these. Perhaps NVDIMMs have made them irrelevant?

Intel Ssd do support various power throttling modes, but you lose sequential write performance :(

https://itpeernetwork.intel.com/managing-power-consumption-of-intel-data-center-ssds/

Looks like Optane NVDIMMs is going to be where it's at, since it seems that PCIe latency could be significant at these speeds.

 

[Stux]

I asked Patrick @ STH if he had any update on his P4800x ZFS figures...

https://forums.servethehome.com/ind...-one-fast-ssd-intel-p4800x.14406/#post-155804