Will there be a TrueNAS 13 based on FreeBSD 13? Or should I switch to SCALE?

[ajgnet]

Hi guys - Long time FreeNAS/TrueNAS user; thanks for the fantastic product. I'm building out a new NAS for my home lab and am wondering if now is the time to switch to TrueNAS SCALE? (Non-essential data, so fine using an ALPHA for awhile.) Or will TrueNAS Core continue to be developed? I love the efficiencies of BSD and don't have a need for Kubernetes/Docker, just curious what to expect in the near future.

 

[Jailer]

IMO the fact that Scale even exists should be enough to answer your question. But that's just my opinion.

I just hope they have a Core->Scale migration plan for when TrueNAS Core eventually does get dropped.

 

[sretalla]

IMO the fact that Scale even exists should be enough to answer your question. But that's just my opinion.

I just hope they have a Core->Scale migration plan for when TrueNAS Core eventually does get dropped.

An interesting opinion, but iX (specifically @Kris Moore ) have specifically commented on both things in these forums and by commissioning the linked video...

SCALE has its role for scale-out workloads, but doesn't specifically replace CORE in terms of being the open-source partner of Enterprise (and hence I expect no rapid demise, nor one in the foreseeable future)

See the official stance here (maybe fast forward through the initial marketing schpeil).

TrueNAS Open Storage Overview

For more information on how to download and install TrueNAS, check here: Download TrueNAS CORE: https://www.truenas.com/download-truenas-core/How to Install ...

www.youtube.com

Also these links:

TrueNAS is Multi-OS

The iXsystems Engineering Team looked at the choices and decided that TrueNAS being multi-OS, was the right solution. It was better than picking one OS for all TrueNAS products and having to make major tradeoffs with respect to stability, continuity, market reach, and innovation. The modularity...

www.ixsystems.com

TrueNAS SCALE Announcement and Nightly Image Downloads

Hello TrueNAS and FreeNAS Community, With TrueNAS 12.0 BETA now released, the iX engineering team is making some great progress with TrueNAS SCALE. In anticipation of the long July 4th holiday weekend here in the US, we are pleased to make available for the first time the official nightly...

www.truenas.com

There will be a migration path (which of course won't be able to migrate jails, but will probably cover shares and some of the other config that could be considered common to the two platforms). I can't find it in terms of a link right now, but I assure you it's in one of the scale threads somewhere coming from Kris or Morgan.

 

[jgreco]

Back when 386BSD first came out, a lot of legacy "tainted" code from BSD 4.4 was left out, leaving an incomplete system, which largely got filled in from GNU sources.

GNU perceives themselves to be champions of "free software", but this means freedom for the SOFTWARE, while the users of the software are under a relatively onerous license that forces the distribution of sources, etc., which is not freedom for the USER.

BSD has a much more permissive license, which allows users the freedom to do a lot more with the software.

The FreeBSD 13 release marks a milestone, a point at which I think they are aiming for all the GNU bits in the base system to be gone.

Now, you might wonder, why does that matter? And it has to do with this licensing thing.

We're in an era where microcontrollers are finding their way into lots of devices, and Linux has a bit of a lead in that department, having found itself integrated into televisions, DVR's, wifi access points, network cameras, etc., capable of running a complete UNIX-like operating system. Many manufacturers have found themselves on the wrong side of the GPL, for failing to provide sources for their Linux-based devices. This is theoretically an opportunity for BSD, because an embedded device based on BSD owes nothing more than credit to the copyright holders, which is far less onerous than having to provide source.

I find it hard to believe that iX would be moving away from FreeBSD. The Linux thing is a pragmatic choice due to technologies not readily available under FreeBSD, but it may be BSD that ends up having the last laugh, since Linux is chained to the GPL albatross. From that perspective, iXsystems has a decade head start working on FreeBSD, and could be well positioned to leverage expertise going forward.

ZFS itself has been a real pig to work with, because it is so resource-heavy, but unlike 10 years ago, it is no longer hard to imagine the development of lightweight storage devices based on ZFS. The QNAP and Synology folks have been running desktop dual-bay 256MB/2C ARM NAS units for years, on that Linux GNU base, but the prospect of a larger RAM/CPU ARM platform is easy to picture today.

I have no idea what plans iXsystems has going forward, but I hope that they realize that FreeBSD's best days could be ahead as the truly free OS running on ARM. I wish for them to be able to take advantage of their long investment in FreeBSD development, and hope that this turns into an opportunity to be a market leader in the NAS business. I don't actually know how to get from A to B, I'm just looking at the big picture.

https://gpl-violations.org/news/

https://www.informationweek.com/fir...ettled-before-it-goes-to-court/d/d-id/1061043

https://sfconservancy.org/blog/2019/oct/02/cambium-ubiquiti-gpl-violations/

https://www.cnet.com/news/fortinet-settles-gpl-violation-suit/

https://www.xda-developers.com/gplv2-and-its-infringement-by-xiaomi/

 

[Gcon]

I would love to see a TrueNAS CORE on 13.x! Now that FreeBSD13-STABLE is out, a lot more dev work for drivers seems to be done on FreeBSD 13-RELENG, and 12.2 not getting as much attention.... which is fine if your device is well supported, but not if your device has support in 13 but not 12.x

In Enterprise environments with no need for K8S I prefer the jails to Docker/K8S. Having direct access to all the files of the jails is great, compared to docker where you only get to see the "-v" files mapped outside the Docker filesystem layers, and for all else have to exec into the Docker to see what's going on,. That's cumbersome. I also like snappshotting jails; having each jail on its own private IP with none of this Docker 172.17.0.1 natting stuff, where I always seem to be changing web managment ports from 80 to 8080, 8081, 8082, 8083 etc etc.

Don't get me wrong I love Docker / K8S where appropriate but "horses for courses". Long live CORE and jails!

So yeah - no plans for me to change from CORE anytime soon. I am really hoping iXsystems can get to work on a 12.2 to 13.x upgrade of CORE, after SCALE is stable and released.

 

[gt2416]

Having tried docker myself, there is certainly an appeal to it, just run a one line command to spin up applications. But managing them and making them work exactly how you want requires a learning curve similar to jails. So for me the "one line spin up an app" feature is not really that much easier. Besides just like @Gcon said, not having to deal with docker NATS and access to the jail filesystem is a HUGE bonus. Plus jails are fun to just spin up and test random scripts and things, for me anyway, SCALE is not even an option. There's no way I can give up jails.

 

[Gcon]

Straight after I posted, I read the blog post from iXsystems that came out with 12.0-U5 stating that initial work on the FreeBSD 13 base has already started! That makes me super happy. The performance increases in 13 look great, based on what I've been reading on phoronix.com website for their FreeBSD 13 benchmarks.