FreeNAS Mini -v- QNAP TVS-471

[thedirtmerchant]

Curious. What is the pro/con list like between these?
I expect to be using Plex to stream video, audio etc to a couple devices at a time and to store tens of thousands of pictures and thousands of videos.

I built my FreeNAS box and broke plenty of rules and learned a lot and still havemany issues with "I learned something new today that I should have been doing for the past several years that has now cost me some lost data".

I'm now looking into spending the proper amount of $ on the hardware, but which way should I go?
Do I still want to admin my own box? Does the QNAP really remove that?

Thoughts? Ideas? Hope I'm not restarting some kind of flame war.

 

[SweetAndLow]

You are going to get biased answers on this forum. If protecting your data is the highest need then ZFS is a better filesystem than whatever the qnap has. Performance with zfs and the FreeNAS mini is probably going to be better than the qnap.

The qnap is going to require less learning about new stuff. I bet you can just plug it in and put data on it. You can do the same with FreeNAS but you should take some time to learn about it.

 

[JohnDigital]

You arent going to get anyone telling you to go QNAP thats for sure. Youve been around since 2012 and are still having QNAP pipe dreams that it could ever stream multiple plex streams and do anything else reliably? My bet is it cant transcode ANY streams, and will struggle to direct stream. My buddy got one a few years back against my arguments and wishes, and now its a 500 dollar (plus) paperweight. He has an account on my Plexpass, OwnCloud and LibreSonic now. He all thought he would store all his video, music and pictures and his wife would store all her crap on it, uh no bud. It routinely lost drives and large files couldnt even be copied to it let alone played. Its good for grannies pictures, and not much else no matter what the ads say. Although I suppose they must have gotten a bit better by now.. Or he might be severely lacking in knowledge of using the damn thing.

Just the other day there was a guy asking "if he could put FreeNAS firmware on his QNAP". Umm. No bud.

If you want cheap(er) easy you go QNAP. If you want a reliable easy functional solution go mini. If you want a solution that does anything you ever might want it to do, at a comparable cost, possibly less, build your own.

This is just my opinion. But like @SweetAndLow pointed out, im biased.

 

[thedirtmerchant]

No, no pipe dream. Just asking. I'm about ready to plunk down the money to purchase the Mini or build myself something around the same price (or buy one of those QNAP/Synology jobbies), but have been burned by my lack of knowledge and admin skills. Yes, it takes time to learn and I did spend time to learn a bit, but after I lost data, each time I find out "well, if you were routinely doing X, Y wouldn't have happened". AKA, great, something else I missed. While I think my skills are probably bare minimum passable at this point from reading all the guides, I continue to have that healthy fear of data loss and drive failure. Cost wise, the QNAP I'm looking at is $999, just like the Mini. Like I said, at this point, I'm trying to understand the pros/cons of each so I can make an informed decision. I expect bias (just don't want a flame war), good trade as far as I'm concerned in order to get the info. Hatred is fine too...just give me the info.

 

[gpsguy]

OOC what sorts of issues caused you to lose data that was stored on your FreeNAS server?

 

[SweetAndLow]

No, no pipe dream. Just asking. I'm about ready to plunk down the money to purchase the Mini or build myself something around the same price (or buy one of those QNAP/Synology jobbies), but have been burned by my lack of knowledge and admin skills. Yes, it takes time to learn and I did spend time to learn a bit, but after I lost data, each time I find out "well, if you were routinely doing X, Y wouldn't have happened". AKA, great, something else I missed. While I think my skills are probably bare minimum passable at this point from reading all the guides, I continue to have that healthy fear of data loss and drive failure. Cost wise, the QNAP I'm looking at is $999, just like the Mini. Like I said, at this point, I'm trying to understand the pros/cons of each so I can make an informed decision. I expect bias (just don't want a flame war), good trade as far as I'm concerned in order to get the info. Hatred is fine too...just give me the info.

So I looked through your old posts and it looks like you are just neglecting your system and not taking the advice you get. You have been told to run auto smart tests, you have been told to not use raid z1 and you have had more checksum errors in the last 2 years than I have had in the past 5 years (note: I have had zero).

Even if you choose to go with the qnap it will not make a difference. You will still lose your data the exact same way as you currently are.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

 

[thedirtmerchant]

OOC what sorts of issues caused you to lose data that was stored on your FreeNAS server?

First time, I was using a Green drive that hit a million parks and failed, which revealed I was doing 0 HDD maintenance (no scrubs, tests, etc whatsoever on anything). Recently I had a drive failure, I did not see it available to put offline, replaced, got an error, put back and found it was there to put offline, resilvered and got permanent errors, found out I need to burn in drives and was not running routine smart tests. Other comments along the way regarding lack of knowledge/tasks/skills that are necessary.

 

[thedirtmerchant]

So I looked through your old posts and it looks like you are just neglecting your system and not taking the advice you get. You have been told to run auto smart tests, you have been told to not use raid z1 and you have had more checksum errors in the last 2 years than I have had in the past 5 years (note: I have had zero).

Even if you choose to go with the qnap it will not make a difference. You will still lose your data the exact same way as you currently are.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

Yup. I had set up scheduled scrubs and thought I had at the time set up smart tests, but did not. Went two years getting my regular emails w/o issues...then found out I did not actually set up smart tests. Good times.

 

[thedirtmerchant]

So I looked through your old posts and it looks like you are just neglecting your system and not taking the advice you get. You have been told to run auto smart tests, you have been told to not use raid z1 and you have had more checksum errors in the last 2 years than I have had in the past 5 years (note: I have had zero).

Even if you choose to go with the qnap it will not make a difference. You will still lose your data the exact same way as you currently are.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

Also, that's what I'm trying to understand. Does any presetup system take care of that type of admin that I don't know to do/don't understand to do? Scrubs/Smartests/etc?

Also, I was told not to use Z1? Definitely missed that one. With 2 drives, what should I be using?

 

[thedirtmerchant]

Honestly, this whole thing started as a "hey, maybe I can put together a cheap RAID with this FreeNAS thing that I found out about", and I got the thing up and running and it worked.

If, with my lack of skills, awareness and understanding, you are just telling me to buy several large external drives and copy all my data to them religiously and leave the RAID stuff to people that understand what to do and how to do it, that is understandable.

However, if the bare minimum I need is good hardware (moving up to 4 drives, what RAID type do I use), scheduled scrubs and smart tests, the ability to read the emails with the scrubs and smart tests (anything else?)...can I work a functional FreeNAS system? Or just bag it?

 

[SweetAndLow]

Honestly, this whole thing started as a "hey, maybe I can put together a cheap RAID with this FreeNAS thing that I found out about", and I got the thing up and running and it worked.

If, with my lack of skills, awareness and understanding, you are just telling me to buy several large external drives and copy all my data to them religiously and leave the RAID stuff to people that understand what to do and how to do it, that is understandable.

However, if the bare minimum I need is good hardware (moving up to 4 drives, what RAID type do I use), scheduled scrubs and smart tests, the ability to read the emails with the scrubs and smart tests (anything else?)...can I work a functional FreeNAS system? Or just bag it?

I think anyone can set up a FreeNAS system. They just need to be able to ask questions and follow advice. There is also a little critical thinking skill required and the ability to read the manual.

To break it down it all comes down to these common setup steps.

0. Burn in all hardware, cpu, power supply, motherboard, memory and especially your hdd's. This should take ~1week.
1. Setup scrubs, these are default setup now so you don't have to do it.
2. setup smart tests task
3. setup smart test email notifications, little different than the tasks
4. setup root email account, used to send emails
5. make sure email sending works
6. DON'T USE RAIDZ1!
7. Use ecc memory and server type hardware
8. Use a UPS and setup to send you emails
9. move your system dataset and rrd data to the pool not your boot device
10. setup a static ip and only use one ethernet port
11. don't expose your system to the internet

 

[wblock]

If protecting your data is the highest need then ZFS is a better filesystem than whatever the qnap has.

This indirectly indicates a potential problem with many of the proprietary NAS systems, it can be impossible to know what filesystem they used. When that matters is when there is a hardware failure. With the standard ZFS used in FreeNAS, you take the drives and plug them into new hardware, then run a current version of FreeNAS or FreeBSD or possibly something else with ZFS. With some of the proprietary systems, it can require finding the same hardware to get that custom version of their filesystem to be able to recover data. That exact situation has been reported on the net (with a Synology system, as I recall).

 

[thedirtmerchant]

I think anyone can setup a freenas system. They just need to be able to ask questions and follow advice. There is also a little critical thinking skill required and the ability to read the manual.

To break it down it all comes down to these common setup steps.

0. Burn in all hardware, cpu, power supply, motherboard, memory and especially your hdd's. This should take ~1week.
1. Setup scrubs, these are default setup now so you don't have to do it.
2. setup smart tests task
3. setup smart test email notifications, little different than the tasks
4. setup root email account, used to send emails
5. make sure email sending works
6. DON'T USE RAIDZ1!
7. Use ecc memory and server type hardware
8. Use a UPS and setup to send you emails
9. move your system dataset and rrd data to the pool not your boot device
10. setup a static ip and only use one ethernet port
11. don't expose your system to the internet

I really do appreciate this. I have the confidence to put a computer together and the knowledge to screw it up. I appreciate the hand holding.

Here's what I've done in my previous build
1
4
5
7

Here's what I haven't done:
0
2
3
6
8

Here's what I don't understand but may/may not have done:
9
10
11
Guess I'll have to search around on how to do these...

Can I simply follow this script:
https://forums.freenas.org/index.ph...guration-for-small-freenas-deployments.27062/

and get all or most of those steps done?
Do I miss anything important?

 

[thedirtmerchant]

This indirectly indicates a potential problem with many of the proprietary NAS systems, it can be impossible to know what filesystem they used. When that matters is when there is a hardware failure. With the standard ZFS used in FreeNAS, you take the drives and plug them into new hardware, then run a current version of FreeNAS or FreeBSD or possibly something else with ZFS. With some of the proprietary systems, it can require finding the same hardware to get that custom version of their filesystem to be able to recover data. That exact situation has been reported on the net (with a Synology system, as I recall).

Good point.

 

[thedirtmerchant]

Side note...I really really thought I had set up scheduled SMART tests after my first set of issues a couple years ago. I want to double check that once I get my box turned back on. I feel like I remember following a cyberjock step-by-step that set up scrubs and smarttests at the same time?

 

[SweetAndLow]

I really do appreciate this. I have the confidence to put a computer together and the knowledge to screw it up. I appreciate the hand holding.

Here's what I've done in my previous build
1
4
5
7

Here's what I haven't done:
0
2
3
6
8

Here's what I don't understand but may/may not have done:
9
10
11
Guess I'll have to search around on how to do these...

Can I simply follow this script:
https://forums.freenas.org/index.ph...guration-for-small-freenas-deployments.27062/

and get all or most of those steps done?
Do I miss anything important?

That setup guide is a great start.

 

[cobrakiller58]

11. don't expose your system to the internet

can you elaborate on what you mean by this statement? I presume you mean keep it safely behind a firewall.

 

[SweetAndLow]

can you elaborate on what you mean by this statement? I presume you mean keep it safely behind a firewall.

Behind firewall that prevents incoming connections. Don't forward ports to your system unless you are sure you know what you are doing and it better be a jail. You can also go as far as preventing outgoing connections also.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

 

[thedirtmerchant]

I believe I'm getting closer and closer to purchasing the Mini.
Does it make any sense to buy the XL and only use 4 or 6 drive bays
and leave the extra space for future expansion?

What is the argument for/against more drives of smaller size vs less drives of larger size
(example 6 2TB drives RAIDz2 vs 4 3TB drives RAIDz2). I understand the net space considerations,
but is it considered costly/risky to have more drives? Thinking that the XL might be the smarter long term idea...

 

[snaptec]

If you would like to expand in the future go with the xl.

More drives/less capacity is a bandwidth / iops / cost efficiency story.
At the moment 4tb drives have the best price / per gb.

If you need more iops f.e. For virtualization storage and don't need much space go witch 8 1TB drives in 4 mirrored vdevs.
You will just get 4TB out of that.

If you go with 4 x4tb in raidz2 you will have about doubled storage but only a quarter (one vdev) of iops.

For home usage a raidz2 is normally the best storage / price / efficiency delta.


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