Need help to determine truenas or no

[HAJFAJV]

Hi
So I have several old pcs lying around and I also happen to have some wd red drives.
Should I make nas or just use windows? My usaged would be very limited and probably only offloading files I use when I create the occasionally YouTube video.
Are there any applications within truenas I can't live without? I don't have any knowledge about this OS other than it features many applications. I know that you can use it for a media host of sort but I already have 4 or 5 streaming subscriptions. So that seems to me more or less mute.
I hope someone here can guide me in the right direction.
Thanks :)

 

[Arwen]

In general, throwing together random old PC parts to make a full time server is a poor choice. Sometimes older PCs use more power for a computer that is to run 24x7. Other times (former) gaming PCs can default to over-clocking of CPU, Memory or even PCIe slots. This can lead to instability for a server, in addition to heat.

Next, some Western Digital Red drives are in-compatible with TrueNAS, (specifically ZFS). If they are the SMR model, then use them elsewhere, not with ZFS.

Further, without a well defined goal, like shared usage or serving as a source for media, using a NAS may not be needed.

Last, knowledge of ZFS is very helpful for building a TrueNAS server. Without some minimal knowledge, pool layout and Dataset design can suffer.


All that said, lightweight NAS use can use older PCs. It is mostly we like to set expectations. If their is instability, excessive power use or too much heat, we may have to answer that the old PC hardware needs replacement.

 

[oxyde]

I have built a home NAS with "random" consumer recycled PC parts, just for store and share data (and run some service with jail) for the device in my network.
I have made some compromise, but i reached my goal.
In my experience, i can advise you about that:
- 16gb of RAM are the minimum (unless 8 are raccomended), and check it progamatically, because 99% will be no ecc
- most desktop mainboard have integrated Realtek NIC... You will Need to replace it with dedicated Intel one, due to the fact Realtek driver fail hard on TN; this is really important!
- avoid use of PCIex hba cheap sata controller for have more SATA port, or you can experience instability; they are cheaper, yes, but not worth
- SMR disk can die really soon in ZFS, avoid use them; same for consumer SSD, avoid use them for storage because they can be really slow with ZFS and degrade your pool
- using old PSU can make you spent a lot of money, due to the less efficency, and can have problem_ running 24/7
- older component idle power consumption Is not so optimized (especially CPU), pay attention on BIOS setup (my system idle p.c. is 35w)
- dont under stimate component temperature, keep Ur system well cooled

 

[Davvo]

I would be more concerned about the Red drives... if they are not ancient and are not Plus or Pro there is a good chance they are SMR. If you give us the model number we can advise you.
Besides that if you have at the very least 8GB of RAM (preferably ECC) you should be good with CORE for simple file storage. Do however note that depending on the actual hardare, in particular on the NIC (Realtek ones are to be avoided), you might expect some challenges.
If you want to read a bit, check the following resources (or look into my signature for a more complete list):

Introduction to ZFS

This is a short introduction to ZFS. It is really only intended to convey the bare minimum knowledge needed to start diving into ZFS and is in no way meant to cut Michael W. Lucas' and Allan Jude's book income. It is a bit of a spiritual...

www.truenas.com

ZFS Storage Pool Layout

This resource was originally created by user: @Davvo on the TrueNAS Community Forums Archive. https://www.truenas.com/community/resources/zfs-storage-pool-layout.201/download [1] This amazing document, created by iXsystems in February 2022 as a “White Paper”, cleanly explains how to qualify...

www.truenas.com

 

[ChrisRJ]

- avoid use of PCIex hba for have more SATA port, or you can experience instability; they are cheaper, yes, but not worth

You probably mix up HBAs and cheap SATA controllers. The latter is indeed a poor choice in most cases and usually comes with a high risk to loose data.

For HBAs there are some prerequisites like IT mode and not using anything RAID. But once those conditions are met, the HBA is actually the recommended way to increase the number of SAS/SATA connections.

 

[oxyde]

You probably mix up HBAs and cheap SATA controllers. The latter is indeed a poor choice in most cases and usually comes with a high risk to loose data.

For HBAs there are some prerequisites like IT mode and not using anything RAID. But once those conditions are met, the HBA is actually the recommended way to increase the number of SAS/SATA connections.

Absolutely was referred to "cheap SATA controller". My bad!

 

[HAJFAJV]

First of all, thanks for all the answers I really appreciate your replies.
It turns out that some of the random computers I have there is an Asrock J3455-ITX board which I have installed Truenas on. As stated above my primary use is filesharing so I chucked my WD40EFRX drives into the system. I also have a fractal node 804 which is pretty nice for what I need it's super small, which is a plus. I plan to put on a shelf in my basement so I don't have to look at it though.
Even though the cpu isn't very powerful nor is it new. I think I want to try having some sort of photo sharing application running, as it would greatly benefit the household.
Any recommendations on an intel pcie card for networking? I read that realtek I to be avoided, so I'm going to try that.
I should add that if this setup turns out to be too little for what I plan to do I think I'll buy something newer but more about that later

 

[oxyde]

Your mainboard is that, right?
I have buy a simple Intel I210AT nic on Amazon for 24€, work like a charm.
Similar model can be purchased on "chinese" site, are the same and a bit cheap (around 10-15€).

 

[HAJFAJV]

Your mainboard is that, right?
I have buy a simple Intel I210AT nic on Amazon for 24€, work like a charm.
Similar model can be purchased on "chinese" site, are the same and a bit cheap (around 10-15€).

Yes that's the mainboard. I'll look at the l210AT

 

[HAJFAJV]

So I have truenas up and running on a machine on my network. On an Asrock J3455-ITX motherboard which has a realtek nic and I'm seeing awful transfer speeds to and from drives on the server. The drive I'm transfering to is a WD40EFRX. Not sure if there are some settings I'm unaware of in truenas that should be enabled or if it could be the nic.
I'm transfering from a windows 10 pc to the nas and getting about 100KB/sec write speeds.

Does it depend on what I'm transfering? Right now I'm trying to transfer my Unity3D projects to my nas so I have a backup of the files just in case.

 

[ChrisRJ]

Three things come to mind as potential culprits:

• RealTek NIC: See "recommended readings" in my signature
• Is this drive an SMR model?: Again, recommended readings
• Your network: How are the machines connected? Built-in switches from router-like gear often suck

 

[Arwen]

First off, that is an older board. It uses the slower DDR3 memory and a simple 4 core, 4 thread processor that was launched 8 years ago;

Intel® Celeron® Processor J3455 (2M Cache, up to 2.30 GHz) - Product Specifications | Intel

Intel® Celeron® Processor J3455 (2M Cache, up to 2.30 GHz) quick reference with specifications, features, and technologies.

ark.intel.com

You don't list all your hardware. Having the bare minimum of memory, 8GBs can affect performance. Further, that board only supports up to 16GBs of memory.

Next, the RealTek Ethernet chip will impact performance;

Is my Realtek ethernet really that bad?

This resource was originally created by user: jgreco on the TrueNAS Community Forums Archive. Please DM this account or comment in this thread to claim it. One of the longest running issues faced here in the forums may be people who come to these forums, wanting to recycle an old PC into a NAS...

www.truenas.com

Even adding an Intel Gigabit Ethernet adapter into the only PCIe slot may be problematic as it is only 1x lane, and does not appear to be open ended slot. So any additional PCIe card would have to be a 1x physical, (unless you cut out the end of the slot).

SMB / Samba tends to want faster processors, rather than more processors. So a 2 core, 4 thread higher performance CPU will work better than a 4 core, 4 thread lower performance CPU.

How are your disks configured?

You mention "drive I'm transferring to is a WD40EFRX", which implies single disk pool. That may be suitable for your purpose, but without redundancy, data safety is non-existent.

 

[HAJFAJV]

Before I answer all your questions and concerns I want to add that I just tried transfering a 3.3 GB mp4 file onto my nas using iSCSI and it took 1 or 2 secs at 1.88 GB/sec, so a super fast conclusion could be it's a SMB problem. I'm saying this without any knowledge of how SMB or iSCSI really works. I just looked at the numbers and drew a conclusion.

 

[HAJFAJV]

Three things come to mind as potential culprits:

• RealTek NIC: See "recommended readings" in my signature
• Is this drive an SMR model?: Again, recommended readings
• Your network: How are the machines connected? Built-in switches from router-like gear often suck

I'll look into RealTek NIC's also as Arwen pointed out, the board I'm using doesn't have many options with PCIe slots as it only has a 1x lane which could be problematic when trying to find an Intel NIC.
The drive is CMR according to https://www.truenas.com/community/resources/list-of-known-smr-drives.141/
My nas is hooked up via a router, the brand name is AirTies. Not sure if that means anything to any of you.

 

[HAJFAJV]

First off, that is an older board. It uses the slower DDR3 memory and a simple 4 core, 4 thread processor that was launched 8 years ago;

Intel® Celeron® Processor J3455 (2M Cache, up to 2.30 GHz) - Product Specifications | Intel

Intel® Celeron® Processor J3455 (2M Cache, up to 2.30 GHz) quick reference with specifications, features, and technologies.

ark.intel.com

You don't list all your hardware. Having the bare minimum of memory, 8GBs can affect performance. Further, that board only supports up to 16GBs of memory.

Next, the RealTek Ethernet chip will impact performance;

Is my Realtek ethernet really that bad?

This resource was originally created by user: jgreco on the TrueNAS Community Forums Archive. Please DM this account or comment in this thread to claim it. One of the longest running issues faced here in the forums may be people who come to these forums, wanting to recycle an old PC into a NAS...

www.truenas.com

Even adding an Intel Gigabit Ethernet adapter into the only PCIe slot may be problematic as it is only 1x lane, and does not appear to be open ended slot. So any additional PCIe card would have to be a 1x physical, (unless you cut out the end of the slot).

SMB / Samba tends to want faster processors, rather than more processors. So a 2 core, 4 thread higher performance CPU will work better than a 4 core, 4 thread lower performance CPU.

How are your disks configured?

You mention "drive I'm transferring to is a WD40EFRX", which implies single disk pool. That may be suitable for your purpose, but without redundancy, data safety is non-existent.

My nas I using 16 GB of ddr3 1600.
I'm trying to transfer data via SMB so maybe that's the problem, my nas cpu is pretty bad, 4 cores up to 2.3 GHz.
Yes I know there is no redundancy right with just one drive but I wanted to see if it would work at all, before making more advanced drive pools.

 

[ChrisRJ]

My nas is hooked up via a router, the brand name is AirTies. Not sure if that means anything to any of you.

While your test with iSCSI seems to invalidate that possibility, that is certainly a setup I would consider "recommended". Any cheap 20 Dollar 1 Gbps 5-port switch from e.g. Netgear will be better. You would certainly not be the first to be bitten with this (and that includes me 15 years back).

 

[HAJFAJV]

While your test with iSCSI seems to invalidate that possibility, that is certainly a setup I would consider "recommended". Any cheap 20 Dollar 1 Gbps 5-port switch from e.g. Netgear will be better. You would certainly not be the first to be bitten with this (and that includes me 15 years back).

Not entirely sure how that is going to work. I have fiber coming into our house then that is being transmitted via wifi to 5 routers/extenders and it's one of these extenders that the nas is plugged into.
So I'm guessing the nas is on wifi.
however that doesn't explain the iSCSI speeds. I took a larger pc game folder and transfered that via iSCSI and the first 5 GB went super fast, something like 800 mb/s then it slowed down to a 10ish mb/s for the last 20 GB of the folder.
Maybe I did something wrong when I setup SMB, should I just use iSCSI instead? I don't know what the practical differences between SMB and iSCSI is. is there a real downside to using iSCSI when only one pc needs access to the files stored?

 

[Patrick M. Hausen]

You cannot get at the files from a rescue system in case your NAS breaks and you want to examine the disk drives that make up your data pool. With SMB the files are in the ZFS dataset like they are visible from Windows. You can use any Linux or FreeBSD rescue disk and any PC you can get, connect the drives and get at your data.

With iSCSI the files are in an opaque "container" and there is no way to copy them over but having a complete working TrueNAS system and iSCSI service to serve them to some Windows machine that can then finally read the files.

So SMB is much better in case some emergency recovery might ever be necessary.

 

[ChrisRJ]

Also, with iSCSI you are limited to access from a single machine at a time. Unless the file system supports concurrent access. But those are special cases and in almost all scenarios you would end up with a corrupted file system in seconds rather than minutes.

 

[HAJFAJV]

So I fixed the whole bad SMB transfer speeds situation by simply changing the "Share type" from Generic to SMB, it's an option you get when you create a new dataset. Mine was origionally set to Generic, so yeah reading everything carefully helps ;)