Help choosing a 2U 12-Bay case - PSU sizing check / case sanity check

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Stephen304

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I'm building a 12 bay media / backup system, tentative parts below. It seems supermicro is a solid choice, so I perused their selection of 2U cases and it looks like most of the 12 bays are under the SC826 model. I have a few questions that I would like some help with:

1. Some of the cases list "SAS3 12Gb/s 1x Expander" - Is this something I want or no? Previously I assumed a 12 bay backplane would just have 3 mini sas connectors (2 I will plug into an hba card and the remaining 4 drives using a reverse breakout) - but these cases say they have 4 mini sas connectors, what's that about?

2. With regards to my tentative parts list below - would 750/800 watts be recommended for my build?

3. This listing appears to be the SC826TQ-R800LP and has dual 800W PSU, what do you guys think? If you don't think that case is best, what would you go for?

Here's my wattage calculation for a fully loaded case (minus case fans):

Code:
Item				QTY	Watts	Total Watts
WD Red Pro			12	35	420
Mobo X10SL7-F			1	25	25
E3-1230V3			1	80	80
Memory CT2KIT102472BD160B	4	6	24
CPU Fan Dynatron K666		1	3	3
LSI 9211-8i			1	13.5	13.5

Total						565.5
Target PSU:					706.875
Ideal Min Watts:				141.375


Thanks!
 
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danb35

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Paging @Mirfster... He's fond of the Dell C2100 servers, which come in a 2U, 12-bay chassis and are really a pretty good deal. They're not the most current tech, though--they're plenty powerful for anything you might reasonably do with FreeNAS, but they draw more power than the newer stuff.

If you want to build your own, that chassis is decent, and I ran my own FreeNAS server in one until I outgrew it. The -TQ backplane is a bit of a hassle, though--it requires individual SATA cables for each drive bay, so cabling becomes a bit of a rat's nest. The -A backplane would be better--it would have, as you're expecting, three mini-SAS connectors, one for every four bays. The -E16 would be better yet; it's the SAS expander backplane you refer to. A single mini-SAS cable from your HBA to the backplane would be all you'd need.

Edit: See https://forums.freenas.org/index.ph...-sas-sy-a-primer-on-basic-sas-and-sata.26145/ for more information on the different backplane options and how they'd work for you.

Edit 2: If you do use the -TQ chassis with the X10SL7, you shouldn't have any need for the 9211-8i--the X10SL7 has a built-in SAS HBA, and between that and the onboard SATA ports, you've got all your drive bays covered with two ports free for SSDs.
 
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Stephen304

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Thanks for the info! I didn't realize the TQ had single cables for each drive. I guess that's why that ebay listing was so cheap... I'm now looking at the CSE-826BE16-R920LPB, which says it has 2 SFF-8087 connectors - does this mean I could plug in both to the LSI 9211's 2 ports for improved speed?

Also, does using an expander like this reduce the theoretical max throughput? (I know spinning drives don't come close anyways, but I'm curious nonetheless). It looks like the 9211 is "6Gbps" and the backplane is listed as "up to 6Gbps support", so it looks like my theoretical max throughput would be unaffected?

Edit: I saw your edit referring to the Lets get sas-y thread. I assume this means that there is no theoretical throughput degradation with a 12 drive configuration in the BE16? The BE16 (or 12Gbps BE1C) option brings out the attached bays as a single SFF8087. For a 12-drive SATA array, this is an ideal choice because there is no contention on the 24Gbps link. But I'm still a little confused because the supermicro page says that it has 2 SFF-8087 connectors?

This one (8286BE16) one is on Amazon for ~1K, is that about the right price for this case / psu? Edit: Or should I consider the used ones?
 
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Ericloewe

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does this mean I could plug in both to the LSI 9211's 2 ports for improved speed?
No, but you get to run all the drives from just four SAS lanes. And forget the 9211, you already have something better on the X10SL7-F, just need the appropriate cables.

Also, does using an expander like this reduce the theoretical max throughput?
Yes, of course, you're muxing (in this case) 12 channels into four.
This one (8286BE16) one is on Amazon for ~1K, is that about the right price for this case / psu? Edit: Or should I consider the used ones?
Definitely look for used ones. If you have some flexibility with regard to the backplane, you can get some nice deals.
 

Stux

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No, but you get to run all the drives from just four SAS lanes. And forget the 9211, you already have something better on the X10SL7-F, just need the appropriate cables.


Yes, of course, you're muxing (in this case) 12 channels into four.

Definitely look for used ones. If you have some flexibility with regard to the backplane, you can get some nice deals.

But 4 ports * 6gbps / 12 drives is still 2gbps per drive.
 

danb35

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depasseg

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danb35

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Thanks for the link, @depasseg. That would be a very strong candidate for a 2U system. It won't be quite as energy-efficient as the hardware @Stephen304 mentions, but it will have plenty of CPU power, plenty of RAM, a suitable HBA already on the right firmware version, etc.
 

Mirfster

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Well, nice to see the C2100/FS12-TY getting some love around here. ;)

@OP, feel free to take a look and if there are any questions I will be more than happy to assist. As others have said, they are a little dated and will use more power but AFAIK it is a sweet system.

P.S. For the Vendor deal I linked in the other thread you have to go to their website and used the coupon code (think it is good until the end of the year). With shipping (in the US) total should be just under $400.00.
 

Stephen304

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Thanks all of you for all of the information! The C2100 actually is looking pretty enticing. I'm trying to compare it to what I wanted to get, and it looks like the processor performs roughly the same. Though 1 thing that concerns me is the AES performance (If I'm interpreting geekbench correctly and assuming geekbench is to be trusted) - I might want to do encryption. Would a dual E5630 be able to do this? Is encryption supported? (I ask because earlier someone told me freenas doesn't support encryption yet).

If the C2100 performs just about as well as the list of parts I picked, I think I'll just grab one of those instead. Also, do you happen to know what mobo is in the C2100? I'm curious about how they hooked up the backplane / what that situation is (backplane expander / reverse breakout ?)
 

Mirfster

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Though 1 thing that concerns me is the AES performance (If I'm interpreting geekbench correctly and assuming geekbench is to be trusted) - I might want to do encryption. Would a dual E5630 be able to do this? Is encryption supported? (I ask because earlier someone told me freenas doesn't support encryption yet).
While I know AES is supported, I can't speak on the performance of the CPUs since I do not use Encryption. The system does support 5500/5600 Series CPUs so if you want you could ask for higher end ones like the X5650 (what I mainly run).
Also, do you happen to know what mobo is in the C2100? I'm curious about how they hooked up the backplane / what that situation is (backplane expander / reverse breakout ?)
While I have heard that is was Gigabyte, Intel or another I do not have that info 100%. These were also known as Quanta Systems so I am sure that there "custom" builds to clients that ordered large quantities (like => 50,000 units or similar).
While there are different backplanes, the one from the vendor (as well as ones I use) all are SAS2 Expanders. So basically you just need a single Mini-SAS cable (SFF-8087) to drive all 12 drives (can use two if you want). For most of my systems I actually get the Perc H200 Mezzanine (costs more) which I cross-flash to LSI 9211-8i. This will free up a PCI slot (since there are only two). If you are really adventurous you can buy an Intel Dual 10 GB NIC that fits another special slot below the PCI Riser; but look to spend like ~$200.00 for it...
 

HeloJunkie

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If you are looking for used servers that would be great for FreeNAS, you might want to take a look at Mr.Rackables/Unix Surplus. I have purchased multiple Supermicro servers from them that are running FreeNAS quite happily and have been for some time. I think others on the forum here have used them as well.

The last one I got was listed as "Great for FreeNAS" and had ECC ram, and the LSI controller had already been flashed to the latest IT firmware!
 

Stephen304

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While there are different backplanes, the one from the vendor (as well as ones I use) all are SAS2 Expanders. So basically you just need a single Mini-SAS cable (SFF-8087) to drive all 12 drives (can use two if you want). For most of my systems I actually get the Perc H200 Mezzanine (costs more) which I cross-flash to LSI 9211-8i. This will free up a PCI slot (since there are only two). If you are really adventurous you can buy an Intel Dual 10 GB NIC that fits another special slot below the PCI Riser; but look to spend like ~$200.00 for it...

Gotcha, thanks. What would using 2 SFF-8087 do? (If I'm understanding Ericloewe's previous response quoted below, he says using 2 won't give any performance benefit):

does this mean I could plug in both to the LSI 9211's 2 ports for improved speed?
No, but you get to run all the drives from just four SAS lanes. And forget the 9211, you already have something better on the X10SL7-F, just need the appropriate cables.
 

Ericloewe

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he says using 2 won't give any performance benefit
Not quite. It should, but first it has to work, and people's experiences aren't very good when it comes to getting it to work.
 

Stux

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Is the second port for multi-pathing SAS drives... Which won't work without sas drives?
 

HeloJunkie

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Not quite. It should, but first it has to work, and people's experiences aren't very good when it comes to getting it to work.

I'm not sure if we are talking about the same thing, but I have the LSI3008 built onto my Supermicro X10SRH-CLN4F motherboard and it has both ports connected from the motherboard to the LSI SAS3x28 SAS Expander/Blackplane. I use only SATA drives and I am not having any issues at all with my setup.

There are two of these cables going from the MB to the backplane:
Internal Mini-SAS HD to Mini-SAS HD 25cm,30AWG,12Gb/s,HF,RoHS/REACH,PBF
 
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Stux

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I'm not sure if we are talking about the same thing, but I have the LSI3008 built onto my Supermicro X10SRH-CLN4F motherboard and it has both ports connected from the motherboard to the LSI SAS3x28 SAS Expander/Blackplane. I use only SATA drives and I am not having any issues at all with my setup.

Yes, but is the second connection necessary? And if it isn't, does it do anything?
 

HeloJunkie

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Yes, but is the second connection necessary? And if it isn't, does it do anything?

Well, I guess that is the question of the day. I bought the server complete from SuperMicro and they came all connected up so that is the way I left them. They also daisy chain out the back of the server via a 8-port Mini SAS HD Int-to-Ext cable adapter as well so you can connect JBODs. I never thought to try it with just one of them.

Now on the 9211-8i I only have one cable connected to my JBOD and it sees all 12 drives in the JBOD with just the one cable.

I only mention the dual cables with the supermicro as @Ericloewe had mentioned some people were having problems with the multi-cable setup (although I could have misunderstood what he was saying).
 

Ericloewe

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I'm not sure if we are talking about the same thing, but I have the LSI3008 built onto my Supermicro X10SRH-CLN4F motherboard and it has both ports connected from the motherboard to the LSI SAS3x28 SAS Expander/Blackplane. I use only SATA drives and I am not having any issues at all with my setup.
That's what's supposed to happen, but a lot of people say that running eight lanes instead of four causes trouble...
 

HeloJunkie

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That's what's supposed to happen, but a lot of people say that running eight lanes instead of four causes trouble...

Hummm....well I am glad I am one of the ones not seeing any trouble!
 
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